Spottail Shiners and Golden Shiners?

Much better, thanks

I'd call that a fallfish.

I'd call that a fallfish.

can someone school me on my these have black lateral lines but most of the fallfish and common shiners i catch are all silver and i can never see a lateral line?

can someone school me on my these have black lateral lines but most of the fallfish and common shiners i catch are all silver and i can never see a lateral line?

here is how i have trouble.....

people are saying this is a common shiner....


i know a common shiner to be this


then im told this is a fallfish...


i know a fallfish to be this....

Loads of shiners, dace, chubs and other minnows have a lateral stripe when they're young that becomes more diffuse or disappears as they mature. Head shape, mouth and body proportions can also change considerably as their diet changes from juvie to adult. I wish ALL fish ID books showed a series of pix from young to adult of each species.

The new close-up of the mystery minnow shows scales that look too small and numerous for a Notropis. I agree fallfish looks like a possibility, or creek chub. (The creek chub's characteristic dark blotch at front base of dorsal isn't always present in young ones).

BUMPY -- A terminology clarification: Lateral LINE is the series of tiny pressure-sensing pores, one in each lateral line scale. It does NOT refer to pigment, which is the lateral STRIPE.

Loads of shiners, dace, chubs and other minnows have a lateral stripe when they're young that becomes more diffuse or disappears as they mature. Head shape, mouth and body proportions can also change considerably as their diet changes from juvie to adult. I wish ALL fish ID books showed a series of pix from young to adult of each species.

The new close-up of the mystery minnow shows scales that look too small and numerous for a Notropis. I agree fallfish looks like a possibility, or creek chub. (The creek chub's characteristic dark blotch at front base of dorsal isn't always present in young ones).

BUMPY -- A terminology clarification: Lateral LINE is the series of tiny pressure-sensing pores, one in each lateral line scale. It does NOT refer to pigment, which is the lateral STRIPE.

Well said... I agree. Bumpy, many times once the fish is collected it will "stress out" a bit. Many times this will change appearence or give the fish a "washed out" look, and the black melanophore pigment will not be evident upon initial inspection. (As a side note... many small creek chubs will have a "french mustache" pigmentation on their upper lip... sometimes hard to see... but when you do see it, you will know what I mean)

The close up doesn't look bridle-ish.

Bear in mind both common shiners and fallfish look like entirely different species when juvenile. Colored up breeding males look miles away from silvery babies w/black stripe.
Also bear in mind that in central Ma waters of the type you're sampling, fallfish and common shiners will make up a huge percentage of the fish population. Fallfish in particular produce so many young it's almost impossible to avoid them in any netfull. After 3 decades of sampling these streams, I assume all silvery minnows with black stripes, not counting blacknose dace, are fallfish and all silvery minnows with a yellow or greenish highlite over their stripe is a common shiner. I'm not usually wrong although I admit the bridle from the pic above somehow slipped by with a bucket of mixed dace, shiners and fallfish. Back then I was unaware that species was present or that it was protected. If I'd have known, I'd have looked much closer and would have noticed the difference.
A good lesson on why you should know all the protected species and their distribution.