Snakehead ?

has a member here ever caught a snakhead fish or a giant snakehead.
i just watched a NATGEO special on this invasive fish.how do you think they got into the potomac river system?

Tony,

That Nat. Geo special is unfortunately way more than science and facts. To say they sensationalized it for TV is an understatement. They got into the Potomac because because they were released by people, either as part of a Buddhist cultural ritual or because they were highly prized in Asian food markets, which are plentiful in the D.C., Baltimore metro area. Actually, both events were confirmed as means of introductions after the fact. Just recently, one was found all the way around the southern point of the Potomac River into what is the Chesapeake Bay proper around Point Look Out. Most likely rode a huge plume of freshwater from our spring floods downstream or are developing quite a salt tolerance.

I looked online and I can find where the Snakehead are found and how many (studies from 2005 and 2008)and even on the fish they eat .......but I havent been able to find a study on how the Snakeheads have affected the local populations of Centrarchids and other fish. Does anyone know of a study I could find online.

Edited by wargreen, 18 July 2010 - 09:09 PM.

I looked online and I can find where the Snakehead are found and how many (studies from 2005 and 2008)and even on the fish they eat .......but I havent been able to find a study on how the Snakeheads have affected the local populations of Centrarchids and other fish. Does anyone know of a study I could find online.

Im sorry, I should have specified that I am looking for information on the Potomoc and it tributaries that have been infested since 2004 with Northern Snakehead; Im having problems with wading through the hundreds of sensationalist news stories that are Googled and Yahoo'ed up.

This website has the following references :

Courtenay, W. R. Jr., and J. D. Williams. 2004. Snakeheads (Pisces, Channidae) - A biological synopsis and risk assessment. U.S. Geological Survey Circular 1251.

Herborg L. M., N. E. Mandrak, B. C. Cudmore, and H. J. MacIsaac. 2007. Comparative distribution and invasion risk of snakehead (Channidae) and Asian carp (Cyprinidae) species in North America. Canadian Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences. 64:1723-1735.

Odenkirk, J. and S. Owens. 2005. Northern snakeheads in the tidal Potomac River system. Transactions of the American Fisheries Society 134:1605-1609.

Try this to cut through the goofy crap.
Northern Snakehead

Thanks for the replies; from what Ive read it seems (the latest published studies are based on info. that is two years old) that the Snakehead biomass is increasing in the Potomoc watershed, and that the Snakeheads favorite food is Topminnows and Centrarchids (why couldnt they prefer Asian Carp?). I certainly hope that Snakeheads do not get established in the distribution areas of the Roanoke Bass and Mud Sunfish (not to mention the damage it could do to populations of smaller species like the Black Banded Sunfish). Drew I read in several articles where it said they are currently doing "population control measures", do you know what these are, and how and where they are doing them (besides sampling and "Kill if you catch laws")? Thanks Joe.

They are not found where Mud sunfish and Blackbanded sunfish are found, at least not in Maryland. I can't speak certainly for Virginia but I would say the same statement holds true. Most of the Centrachids in the Potomac are not native, in fact the basin itself is a hot bed of non-natives. There are no Asian carp in the basin either so there the chance to predate doesn't exist. Asian carp are so skittish that I can't see an ambush predator like snakehead being too successful at getting a meal out of one. Not really the same habitats either. They're on the move though (snakeheads that is).

Folks are catching huge ones at mouth of the creek that flows through my neighborhood. Now I'm wondering how far upstream they will go...

Well I guess thats one type of controll measure (I just hope it works)!

Folks are catching huge ones at mouth of the creek that flows through my neighborhood. Now I'm wondering how far upstream they will go...

Sorry I was just joking about the Asian Carp . I did some further research and found that you are correct that Bluegill are not native to the Potomac river; Redbreast sunnies and Bluespotted sunnies are native to the Potomac, since I had read earlier that Snakeheads are mainly eating Topminnows and Sunfish in studies done in the Potomac, I suppose we should be immediately worried about the biomass reductions of those natives in relation to the biomass increase in the Northern Snakeheads. I am still worried about the Northern Snakeheads ability to move to areas containing threatened or endangered fish (especially Centrarchids and topminnows since thats what gut content analysis seems to be saying they eat the most of). On the map it dosent look like they are too far from the distribution areas of the Roanoke Bass,Mud Sunfish and Blackbanded sunfishs in Virginia and New Jersey.....I am hoping that the states of Maryland and Virginia's controll measures can contain them before that happens.

They are not found where Mud sunfish and Blackbanded sunfish are found, at least not in Maryland. I can't speak certainly for Virginia but I would say the same statement holds true. Most of the Centrachids in the Potomac are not native, in fact the basin itself is a hot bed of non-natives. There are no Asian carp in the basin either so there the chance to predate doesn't exist. Asian carp are so skittish that I can't see an ambush predator like snakehead being too successful at getting a meal out of one. Not really the same habitats either. They're on the move though (snakeheads that is).

Edited by wargreen, 21 July 2010 - 10:27 PM.

Ashtonmj, has the state of Maryland considered doing control measures on the SNakehead the way some Western states are doing them on Northern Pikeminnows (put small bounties on their capture)or maybe having a annual Snakehead tournament in the middle of their spawning season?

Don't really know, not my department/division within the agency. After some apprehension, there seems to be a general attitude to allow recreational fishing for snakeheads, guides, etc. to take advantage of the growing population and offer some sort of removal oppurtunity. Control isn't an option, that flew out the window probably about the time the first YOY were found. From my understanding the pikeminnow situation is very different. That population is highly localized in the Columbia and restricted by a dam. The snakeheads in the Potomac basin are going pretty much everywhere they can. From what I've heard, they aren't the easiset fish to catch using hook and line either. Other than some localized aggregations during spawning and post spawn they are so widely dispersed finding more than a handful to a dozen in a day is pretty time consuming.

Thanks for responding, good news, Im glad theyre allowing recreational fishing now for the Snakeheads. I know why they didnt at first....but like you said once the Yoy were found it was too late for other methods and containment. I have friends (one of my bosses at work is one) who are planning a trip to Florida just to go Peacock Bass fishing (and one of them cant wait to catch an Oscar or some Tilapia); if they charged people from out of state to fish for them and had like a annual Dogue creek tournament during breeding season when they aggregate (and have rules that its only catch and release for natives) I think the exrta money made could pay for more conservation agents who could monitor the boats and fisherman.

Don't really know, not my department/division within the agency. After some apprehension, there seems to be a general attitude to allow recreational fishing for snakeheads, guides, etc. to take advantage of the growing population and offer some sort of removal oppurtunity. Control isn't an option, that flew out the window probably about the time the first YOY were found. From my understanding the pikeminnow situation is very different. That population is highly localized in the Columbia and restricted by a dam. The snakeheads in the Potomac basin are going pretty much everywhere they can. From what I've heard, they aren't the easiset fish to catch using hook and line either. Other than some localized aggregations during spawning and post spawn they are so widely dispersed finding more than a handful to a dozen in a day is pretty time consuming.

Edited by wargreen, 24 July 2010 - 08:52 AM.

That's not really what I said about the fishery. They were allowing it all along but state and federal laws prohibited posession so it was hard to encourage something when it was completely unknownit. Encouraging people to essentially enjoy a fishery created by someones selfish act of playing Johnny Appleseed with an invasive fish is a tricky situation. Too much encouragement and you can end up with people thinking "this is a great idea, lets move more, or lets bring Nile Perch, or Peacock Bass". The same thing sort of happened with Blue catfish. It's a good recreational fishery now, but pretty much at the exspense of the native white catfish which once supported a commercial fishery. By writing a kill on landing provision it allows the people who want to catch them and eat them while holding out the promise that if everyone follows the regulation their should be no more movements of snakeheads by humans between waterbodies.

I understood what you said and I knew from my research the reasons why; I think prohibiting possession and sale is a good idea since from what Ive read and watched on tv supports the evidence (just like you stated earlier)that points to Asian food markets introducing the species so they wouldnt have to import it from Asia. Thats why I would push for the sport fishing of it (and still have "catch it kill it laws"), and not the food commercialization aspect; maybe the state could charge for an extra stamp (like the Trout stamps we have here) to fish for it and make the fines and jail times for intentional introductions on par for killing a Bald Eagle. Im not an expert these are just ideas, Im just a concerned US citizen who still loves their country and its natural heritage, and would like to see that heritage preserved (the best that we can). Thanks Joe.

That's not really what I said about the fishery. They were allowing it all along but state and federal laws prohibited posession so it was hard to encourage something when it was completely unknownit. Encouraging people to essentially enjoy a fishery created by someones selfish act of playing Johnny Appleseed with an invasive fish is a tricky situation. Too much encouragement and you can end up with people thinking "this is a great idea, lets move more, or lets bring Nile Perch, or Peacock Bass". The same thing sort of happened with Blue catfish. It's a good recreational fishery now, but pretty much at the exspense of the native white catfish which once supported a commercial fishery. By writing a kill on landing provision it allows the people who want to catch them and eat them while holding out the promise that if everyone follows the regulation their should be no more movements of snakeheads by humans between waterbodies.

Edited by wargreen, 24 July 2010 - 09:00 PM.

No problem Joe. All good ideas and ones I generally agree with. We've all talked about different types of "stamps" or "tags" lately that are special user fees, which are great ideas. However, there is just no political will to get those kinds of things past committees. Even something that would be as popular as a snakehead derby tag would likely die after introdcution in Maryland. Just throw logic out the window with those types of things no matter how good the intentions are at the core. Conflicting user groups (i.e. lobbyists) come out of the woodwork.

Thanks Matt, I know our government workers sometimes get a bad rap for what our elected officials do or dont do (sometimes Im even guilty of this you get frustrated when it dosent seem to matter if theyre Dems or Repubs they all seem to count on becoming lobbyist when they retire) hopefully one day soon this will change (like after the next couple of elections)!

No problem Joe. All good ideas and ones I generally agree with. We've all talked about different types of "stamps" or "tags" lately that are special user fees, which are great ideas. However, there is just no political will to get those kinds of things past committees. Even something that would be as popular as a snakehead derby tag would likely die after introdcution in Maryland. Just throw logic out the window with those types of things no matter how good the intentions are at the core. Conflicting user groups (i.e. lobbyists) come out of the woodwork.

I had watched a t.v. program on this fish. (probly discovery channel). These things protect their nests and will not hesitate to attack a human that get's near the pair in water. These fish should have a right to live but should not have been introduced to our lakes etc. It's like the cuaga musscle but in this case was done maliciously i think. (or by some religious fool as you mentioned)Who know's why but it's not good. These things will massacre any fish in our country. They are extremely aggressive and have some sharp teeth. They reproduce very rapidly and attack anything that moves. I hope there will be a solution for this.
This is a side note : There are several youtube videos of idiotic people showing them eating the sunfish and bass we discuss here on forums. They video it thinking it's cool. If you see a video like this please help to report it. It may help in diverting another means of 'popularity' of fish and block potential fools from releasing them in u.s.
I wish you all well and thanks for hearing my opinion on this. You have all helped me with questions. I felt a need to express myself on this topic.
Maybe the discovery channel is based on propaganda I now see. Or maybe it's a bit of a mix of so much info across the board in the world about this it's hard to see the truth.
Also another factor is the multi billion dollar bass fishing industry that will go down to hell if these things populate too much of u.s. So they might influence the channels on tv and media too. All I care about is saving our bass and sunfish.

Edited by Moonbat, 18 August 2010 - 12:59 PM.

"Report" videos of fish eating fish? Are you serious?