Flag Fin shiners Dying

My Flagfin Shiners have been going off one by one and swimming around in the corner in circles with their fins closed and dying. I have been looking online to try to figure it out, but nothing seems to match up. I see no other symptoms.
Over the past 2-3 weeks I have gone from 12 to 6 and it seemed to stop. Now I see another fish behaving this way.
Appreciate any advice.

My Flagfin Shiners have been going off one by one and swimming around in the corner in circles with their fins closed and dying. I have been looking online to try to figure it out, but nothing seems to match up. I see no other symptoms.
Over the past 2-3 weeks I have gone from 12 to 6 and it seemed to stop. Now I see another fish behaving this way.
Appreciate any advice.

What state are you from? One symptom of VHS is swimming in circles.
vhs info

Before I say anything else, I should ask about your nitrate concentration. Above 30 ppm, your fish's immune system becomes compromised and unbiquitous pathogens can become dangerous. Ammonia and nitrite should be at 0 ppm. If you don't own a test kit, sometimes pet stores will test your water for free.

Having said that, it says on http://www.fishyfarm...A/behavior.html that whirling around could be an infection of the swim bladder, possibly a bacterial infection. The proscribed treatment is "Use Erythromycin powder for 10 days. TMP Sulfa is also a good treatment for swim bladder disorders." That website ( http://www.fishyfarm..._disorders.html ) is a good one for diagnosing fish diseases.

But it is more likely that your fish have whirling disease, especially if you feed them live food. On http://www.wetwebmed...hirldisfaqs.htm , a person asked: "I have a school of shiners from Mississippi River in my 10 gallon tank. Two of the fish started to show signs of spinal deformations and they twist and whirl when swimming."

Sabrina, the author of the reply on wetwebmedia.com says, "Yikes.... Not a good sign, at all. Use strong caution, here - do *not* return any of these fish to the wild - if they have a contagious disease (and it sounds like they do), it could impact other wild fish very negatively. As you describe this, the first thing that pops into mind is "whirling disease". This illness is caused by a myxosporidian parasite known as Myxobolus cerebralis. It's usually seen in salmonids (like salmon and trout), but has been seen in other fish as well, even goldfish and livebearers. The parasites infect the tissues around the inner ear and the cartilage of the skull. It causes the fish to swim in circles, sometimes frantically, or to swim nose-down tail-up, spinning like a top. It is usually fatal, though some fish will survive and thereafter always have spinal/skeletal deformities. It is also untreatable, I'm sorry to say. If this is what your fish are exhibiting, I would strongly recommend euthanizing the sick fish, or at the least remove them to a separate tank to prevent spread of the disease to your other fish. If the fish die in the tank of healthy fish, the healthy fish run an *enormous* risk of catching the illness - hundreds of thousands of M. cerebralis parasites may be released by an infected dead fish. Also, if the fish die, do *not* flush them, for the same reasons. Perhaps bury them at the roots of a favorite plant, so they can "live on" as life given to the plant.... or maybe I'm just sappy and sentimental. anyhow, I know this is a huge amount of bad news, and I am sorry to be the bearer of it...."

Edited by Okiimiru, 23 July 2010 - 02:50 PM.

What state are you from? One symptom of VHS is swimming in circles.
vhs info

The fish are from Alabama. None of my darters or NRBDs have been affected.
No other symptoms.
Levels in the tanks are perfect- trates, trites...

Before I say anything else, I should ask about your nitrate concentration. Above 30 ppm, your fish's immune system becomes compromised and unbiquitous pathogens can become dangerous. Ammonia and nitrite should be at 0 ppm. If you don't own a test kit, sometimes pet stores will test your water for free.

Having said that, it says on http://www.fishyfarm...A/behavior.html that whirling around could be an infection of the swim bladder, possibly a bacterial infection. The proscribed treatment is "Use Erythromycin powder for 10 days. TMP Sulfa is also a good treatment for swim bladder disorders." That website ( http://www.fishyfarm..._disorders.html ) is a good one for diagnosing fish diseases.

But it is more likely that your fish have whirling disease, especially if you feed them live food. On http://www.wetwebmed...hirldisfaqs.htm , a person asked: "I have a school of shiners from Mississippi River in my 10 gallon tank. Two of the fish started to show signs of spinal deformations and they twist and whirl when swimming."

Sabrina, the author of the reply on wetwebmedia.com says, "Yikes.... Not a good sign, at all. Use strong caution, here - do *not* return any of these fish to the wild - if they have a contagious disease (and it sounds like they do), it could impact other wild fish very negatively. As you describe this, the first thing that pops into mind is "whirling disease". This illness is caused by a myxosporidian parasite known as Myxobolus cerebralis. It's usually seen in salmonids (like salmon and trout), but has been seen in other fish as well, even goldfish and livebearers. The parasites infect the tissues around the inner ear and the cartilage of the skull. It causes the fish to swim in circles, sometimes frantically, or to swim nose-down tail-up, spinning like a top. It is usually fatal, though some fish will survive and thereafter always have spinal/skeletal deformities. It is also untreatable, I'm sorry to say. If this is what your fish are exhibiting, I would strongly recommend euthanizing the sick fish, or at the least remove them to a separate tank to prevent spread of the disease to your other fish. If the fish die in the tank of healthy fish, the healthy fish run an *enormous* risk of catching the illness - hundreds of thousands of M. cerebralis parasites may be released by an infected dead fish. Also, if the fish die, do *not* flush them, for the same reasons. Perhaps bury them at the roots of a favorite plant, so they can "live on" as life given to the plant.... or maybe I'm just sappy and sentimental. anyhow, I know this is a huge amount of bad news, and I am sorry to be the bearer of it...."

Trates. Trites. etc... are perfect.
None of my other fish have been affected.
They are not whirling but swimming in circles with fins closed. no spinal deformities or any other visible symptoms.
Heh, I always bury any dead fish in plants. I have plants that are blooming and I have never seen them bloom in all the years I have had them.

Well, Whirling Disease is, thank goodness, not a big problem in Flagfin territory.

I suggest a major water change, and then treatment with Jungle's Parasite Clear fizz-tabs. Those have a good combination of meds in them that work well against all sorts of parasitic things, and I'm pretty sure that infection is not the problem. Try "Clout" if that doesn't do the trick, and then finally finish with a good old copper/formalin solution.

Try to keep the temperature down into the low to mid 70's, too.

Well, Whirling Disease is, thank goodness, not a big problem in Flagfin territory.

I suggest a major water change, and then treatment with Jungle's Parasite Clear fizz-tabs. Those have a good combination of meds in them that work well against all sorts of parasitic things, and I'm pretty sure that infection is not the problem. Try "Clout" if that doesn't do the trick, and then finally finish with a good old copper/formalin solution.

Try to keep the temperature down into the low to mid 70's, too.

I will try this.
Do you have any idea how Darters do with Jungle Parasite Clear? I have a lot of darters in this tank. I have found darters to be sensitive to some meds.
Thanks!