We just picked up our used 125 gallon aquarium yesterday. We already have some bluegill and what I believe to be madtoms in our outside pond. We are looking to set up the aquarium inside as a native tank. We "fell" into the natives by accident, we were given a common goldfish by a relative who was moving, and within a week our 2 year old daughter decided she wanted "real" fish, when asked what she meant by real, she said, you know the ones we catch when we go fishing! Hence the native tank! We are moving the fish from there pond outside as its getting a little overstocked and we would rather her be able to look through the glass and see the fish all the time instead of trying to look down into the pond to see the fish. We are looking forward to setting up the tank, but are patiently waiting as the first step is a new stand, the one that came with it was particle board and starting to buckle. We are planning to build a new one (thanks for all the info on this in the other threads I have read!) Then comes the process of cycling the tank, although Im hoping this wont take as long as I originally thought since we do have a filter in the current pond tank and was hoping to be able to use the media from that to speed up the cycling process.
My questions are about the filters for the new tank, what would be the best type of filter systems to use? It came with one of the ones that goes over the side of the tank?
Also I have read on other threads that its better to buy river rock than to go get it from the river and clean it, those of you that have rock in your tanks what do you use? I am questioning why using rocks from the river is not ok but using the driftwood is (we will be putting driftwood in as well!)
Also I have read that to keep down on agression there should be plenty of hiding places and different areas for the fish and that with bluegill its best to overpopulate to manage agression, what is your experience with this?

Thanks for all the advice you have already given in the other threads I have been reading! NANFA is truly the best online resource for Native fish aquariums I have found! I will hopefully be posting pictures of the tank along the way and look forward to enjoying this for many years to come (as I believe we have already become addicted!)

My questions are about the filters for the new tank, what would be the best type of filter systems to use? It came with one of the ones that goes over the side of the tank?

With a 125 gallon tank, or really any large tank, it's best to have a couple filters instead of a single large one.

The efficacy of a single large filter degrades over time, so even if you could find one rated for a 125 gallon aquarium, I doubt it would still function for that capacity after 6 months. Also, multiple small filters are nice because even if one of them goes out, you're still okay during the time it takes you to go buy another. Multiple filters also mean more water flow throughout the tank. Two small filters at each end mean less stagnant areas than just one large filter at one end.

I am going to leave this for you to read. http://www.fishkeepi...ing-article.htm Think about the surface area of the filter system. The more surface area you have, the more bacteria are able to live in your filter media. Sponges are an example of a high surface area material. Never rinse your filter media with [chlorinated] tap water. The beneficial bacteria would die. Similarly never let the media dry out.

I recommend filters that have a mechanical filtration area (to remove particles from the water), a biological filtration area (a high surface area medium for the beneficial bacteria to live on) and a chemical filtration area (for example, tanks with wood in them don't get yellow water if there is fresh activated carbon in the filter. Replace activated carbon every two to three weeks). I am a fan of waterfall filters because it is so easy to modify and monitor them. That's probably what you got with your tank. Picture of a waterfall filter: http://www.aquarticl...g/Waterfall.JPG
If something happens in an undergravel system, you can't see it and don't notice. Also, undergravel systems are not compatible with small grained substrates of the kind necessary for growing plants (unless you plant them in a pot and then put the pot in the gravel. You could do that). And undergravel systems can kill baby fish, sucking them right under.

You will have to regularly maintenance your filter, removing organic matter from the mechanical filtration part. Never turn a filter on without water in it. And work on it only after you have unplugged it. Take your filter apart once a month and clean it out. There will be slime in there. And if you plan on having baby fish, stick some nylon or some small hole netting over the filter's intake valve. Or a sponge rubber banded into place and cut to fit. Don't let it get sucked up into the filter, of course. Actually, that's a good idea even if you don't have baby fish because the rubber banded barrier acts as a first layer of mechanical filtration, keeping floating bits of stuff out of your filter. That's very important if you have live plants, since they tend to shed their dead parts every now and then, which can get sucked up into your filter and clog it.

Remember to test your new filter system:
1. It should disturb the surface of the water.
2. Sprinkle some food in and watch where it flows to test the amount of current. There should be no truly stagnant areas in the water.

Edited by Okiimiru, 23 July 2010 - 03:19 PM.

Bluegills are pretty much a schooling species, so if they're about the same size they're usually tolerant of each other (not counting breeding males). It still wouldn't hurt to have rocks or wood creating more dimensionality in the tank.

I have a 100 gallon native tank that is heavily stocked. I use two canister filters. They are Eheim 2217s, which are rated for aquariums up to 160 gallons. I started out with one, and stocked the tank less than it is now, because those babies are expensive! With a large tank and large fish that you plan to put in it, you want to make sure you have plenty of biological filtration. If you use the hang-on-the-back filters (HOB) use at least two and also add a couple of big sponge filters. HOB filters are usually lousy biological filters. Do use some used media from your outside filter, it will speed up cycling. Add fish slowly and test for ammonia (NH3 & NH4), nitrites (NO2) and nitrates (NO3). Ammonia and nitrites should be zero after your tank has cycled. You want to keep NO3 as low as possible.

I would go with an FX5 from fluval. They are great filters, and should provide good water movement.

As far as I am concerned collected rock is fine, in fact it doesn't even require any more rinsing than most bagged rock. I guess there is the concern of unwanted organisms, but what the hell, it is a native tank. I am a fan of fluval filters, I have made most of my filters, but the ones that I have purchased are fluvals, and I am very happy with them. Wait actually I did not purchase them, I camped out overnight in front of a LFS. It was their grand opening, and the were offering free fluvals to the first 8 people in the door. So me and my sons, camped out on their doorstep in January and got our 3 filters.
Anyway, I am now using fluvals in combo with fluidized bed filters on large tanks. You have to fab up a diverter valve system to channel a percentage of the outflow from the fluval into the sand filter, otherwise you have to throttle the filter back so far that you lose efficiency. Fluidized bed filters have so much more surface area than other biological filters, and they do not lose efficincy with age. The sand particles are constantly bumping into each other, and therefore remain clean, and cannot become clogged. On a tank that size I would use two canister filters, one being hooked up to a flidized bed. That is way overkill, in fact one can, and the fluidized bed is more than enough, but as mentioned above extra filtration is great in the event of a system crash. Oh, and the fluidized bed filters are more dynamic, and recover quicker, and adjust to a varying stocking density. Hang on back filters are junk, plain and simple. Wet/drys with sumps are great, but require some extra plumbing that you may or may not want want to get into, but again they age, and the media clogs and loses efficiency.
For small tanks 30 gallons or less, sponge filters cant be beat, and are great supplemental filtration for larger tanks. If you are running an airstone, you might as well be be running a sponge filter.
And, that is a great story about your daughter wanting real fish. I have to agree with her, what better to learn about than the creatures in your own back yard. Good luck, and if you need some assistance with fishless cycling of your tank, I use a product from aquatic ecosystems that consists of ammonia chloride. It works fantastically. It comes in an awful big quantity, so it is not practical for most people to buy, but I might be persuaded to ship a bit out if anyone wants to try it. Of course I would need some cash to cover the cost of shipping, and the material.

Thanks for all your helpful information! We noticed yesterday that our fish had a parasite on their gills, we were unsure what it was but after reading as many of the forums on here I could find about parasites we decided to try the Jungle Labs Parasite Guard, it sounds like great stuff, so hopefully that helps clear everything up!We also were able to get some plants and am hoping that will help add some more appeal to the tank as well, we will be going out in the next day or two and collecting some rock and hopefully finding a few good pieces of driftwood! Also we are thinking of setting the 125 up on our covered carport/garage area. It would set against the garage wall on the concrete carport (which we use for a patio) its completely covered and protected from the elements, it has electric so we would be able to run all the filters, lights, ect. We are thinking of using this setup for the next few months, then adding an additional, possibly smaller, tank inside later. Our reasoning for this is the tank is used, and although it is in decent shape, it was obviously not well taken care of previously. As it is right now it does not have any leaks or obvious problems, but just to be safe we are thinking this would be the best idea (plus we would get to have another tank inside ). Are there any problems with having an aquarium set up outside? I know the temperatures varies more, and I am thinking that is my biggest concern. I was wondering if this would put more stress on the tank itself? Would it be a problem for the fish as well or would it simulate nature better? We do have a heater for the tank if need be but was unsure how well it would work outside. Thanks Again!

Are there any problems with having an aquarium set up outside? I know the temperatures varies more, and I am thinking that is my biggest concern.

Simulating seasons is actually a great thing. Some fish won't breed without a "trigger", something that in their natural habitat induces them to spawn. One common trigger is an increase in temperature and lengthening of daylight hours to represent the change from winter to spring (example: goldfish and koi). But simulating seasons is a little different from freezing/cooking your fish to death. Outdoors, you're more likely to do the latter.

What is your climate like? Are we talking Wisconsin winters or Florida winters? 'Cause they're two entirely different things.

For cold weather:
Even when exposed to exactly the same environment, a tank gets colder than a large body of water does. A large pond overwinters better than a small pond, yeah? So this means that even though your fish might be from your area and therefore accustomed to the minimum temperature there, the tank that they're in might get colder than their natural body of water would. In the winter, make sure to have a couple thermometers in different spots in the tank and watch it so that the temperature doesn't dip below the fish's comfort range. The tank is not a pond, and it can get too cold if you don't heat it. You might need two heaters if one doesn't get the temperature up to your fish's comfort range. Two smaller heaters in both ends of your tank is better one large heater in one spot. The heat is more evenly distributed if you have more than one heater, you won't be up a creek if one breaks because the other one will heat the water during the time you go out to the store and buy another heater, and it costs less to buy two small heaters (generally) than it does to buy one large one.

For hot weather:
Your tank isn't in direct sunlight, right? I hope not. Again, the difference between the place the fish came from and the tank it will live in now is space. In the summer, fish in the wild are able to swim away into deeper or shaded water when it gets too hot for them. They can't do that in your tank. So if the sun shines directly on your water, it might get too hot and your fish might get stressed. It's better to put the tank in shade and then use a heater to heat it if it gets too cold than it is to put the tank in direct sun and then try to cool it somehow (never a fun thing to do). So think about the maximum temperature that your garage gets in the summer, because that's what your fish will have to endure.

Water:
Remember that you've got to get the water from your water supply over to where the tank is. This is the same thing I told my step dad when he wanted me to set up a tank on the second (carpeted) floor. If the water supply is on the first floor and there are stairs in between it and the tank, then I just don't think it's a good idea.
If your water supply is just too far away, you can collect rainwater in a barrel(there are DIY construction plans online. Build it safely. It should cost around $80 to $120). And you can get a long gravel siphon and drain all the way out to your yard or sink.

Critters:
Don't let them eat your fish. Raccoons break into my garage all the time, and I can only imagine the look of joy on the face of any raccoon to stumble into your garage with a 125 gallon tank in it. Buy a secure lid, and consider buying a motion activated ultrasonic alarm; they only cost $10. I think the brand name is "bark off". They're great for keeping critters away.
Edit: It's not bark off; that's activated by noise (not by motion). The motion activated one isn't that much more expensive, though, $35 on http://www.amazon.co...R/dp/B00281NGAU

Edited by Okiimiru, 27 July 2010 - 10:06 AM.

I guess knowing what my climate is like would be a good think- Virginia, shenandoah valley area. The tank will be in a shaded area, and its only approximately 8 feet from where the fish have been in their small fountain/pond for the last few months. And luckily its within hose distance! Since its on the carport against a concrete wall it doesnt seem to get as hot as the open areas outside. As for critters we have a pretty decent hood with it but I will make sure to make my husband aware of this so he can combat this problem before it begins. Thanks again!

quote: Skipjack

-Hang on back filters are junk, plain and simple.


I have kept 2 heavily stocked African cichlid (mbuna) 75G tanks for several years running 2 AC110 HOB filters on each, never had any problems. 50% water changes weekly and regular filter maintenance has always done the trick for me.

Joe

Edited by Pigfarmer111, 29 July 2010 - 01:06 PM.

Thanks for all of your help! Just wanted to update, progress on the 125 has been gradual, but we are finally happy with the way its coming along! It cycled relatively quick with the filter media from our established tank, we did however have a few roadbumps along the way. We were looking to use live plants and found our local wal-mart had all of their live fish and plants 50% off so we bought the plants there, the first time we bought a few, brought them home, rinsed them off and added them to the tank- a few fish were found dead the following morning; We waited a few days (remaining fish seemed to be fine) and not even thinking the plants could be the problem, decided to go purchase some more, brought them home, rinsed them and placed them in the tank- same thing, killed the remaining fish. We decided to treat with the parasite clear, we waited a few days and brought home some newly collected fish, they have been fine for a couple weeks now. Has anyone else had this happen with plants from low-quality stores?? The tank is doing well outside, and we are thinking we may set up something inside for the winter instead of letting them winter outside. The HOB filter that came with the tank gradually started slow, so we purchased a new one and it is working wonders, we are planning on purchasing a canister filter in the near future, but for now we are using th 2 HOBs. We found some driftwood and were able to build a nice centerpiece for the tank, we have added larger rocks as well. We had a little trouble with the brown "new tank" algae, but it seems to be better now as well, is this caused more by plants, as it seemed to only be on the planted 1/2 of the tank? Also one last question, in regards to collecting, the river we live near is very polluted, and every fish we see has sores on them and are overall unhealthy looking, because of this we have not brought any home from the river, and try to go out of our way to find the cleanest places to collect, so we can have the healthiest fish possible, we have all become quite attached to our current inhabitants and so we are very careful about introducing new fish. I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on fish from polluted waters, would it be ok to collect and quarantine any that seemed healthy enough to bring home, or should we just play it safe and stick to our cleaner options?? Thanks again for all your helpful information, we love this site, its probably the most informative one we have found!!

I've never had trouble with plants from big box stores. I almost never buy stuff from those stores, but once in a great while I see something. (Then it takes a half hour to get an employee to fish it out for me and I swear never to do it again.) I hope someone can shed some light on this.

On collecting from polluted waters, I guess if there were somewhere cleaner to collect, I'd go there. If there were fish that I could only get in a polluted spot, I'd try it and quarantine them for a long time. If they don't die immediately after you bring them home, I'd treat them with something mild to help them recover. Mild medications would be Melafix, Pimafix, maybe some Maroxy. I'd collect them in the fall, it's the best time of the year. They aren't spawning, the water is cool, and the fish should be in the best possible shape. I've never actually done this, so maybe someone with some real life experience can chime in.