ID's needed on fish

first a strange little red eyed fellow i assume is a sunfish fry. The fishes head was a shiny blue, the photo doesn't show it well.





At first I thought this was a fallfish, but the spot before the tail makes me wonder if it is a spottail.



As for these guys, at first I assumed they were commons from the blue flash of their sides but then i noticed they look more like fallfish. I am ALMOST certain they are fallfish but want a definate answer.

Here's something you're not going to hear from most fish identification guides -- you can tell most minnows apart by the expression on their faces. Really. The position, orientation, size, and shape of the mouth will separate a very large number of minnows easier then trying to count anal fin rays in the field. Bear in mind that there can be substantial sexual dimorphism -- differences between males and females -- in some groups (Cyprinella comes to mind), but once you get the "gestalt" of minnow heads down, they're not all that difficult.

Next time you're out, spend more time looking at the fish you catch, rather than trying to get as many as you can. Hold them in some clean water in a zip-loc (rather than in your dry hand) and look at the shape of the mouth. Up close. Those little barbels that you can't see in "dry hand pics" stick out, or are at least more visible than when you're shooting pictures from a foot away. Even the little barbels in the groove between the upper lip and the head in fallfish seem to pop out when you can watch the fish open and close its mouth.

Track down a copy of your local fish book (more difficult for you now that Hartel's MA book is out of press) or get a copy of the Peterson guide and learn the other characters, also, but mouth shape won't let you down if you take the time to learn it.

Folks on the Forum like chiming in with their opinions on what a given fish is. Heck, so do I, but that's not going to make you learn your fish. Spend time out looking and observing. Learn your fallfish across a range of sizes (tiny fallfish were my ichthyology prof's favorite way of making exams difficult). When you get a spottail shiner, and look at the head, you're going to be like "WOW, that's no fallfish!"

good luck.

Tough call on the sunfish... I would have to throw him under a scope to be of much help. The others look like Fallfish... they can have those "spot-tails" when they are young. Good job.

Tim

I am not used to sunfish fry, i assumed the reddish eyes and metallic blue headfs would be a quick ID to those who know them. If they are lepomis then it narrows it down to three species (bluegill, pumpkinseed, and redbreast, all of which are in this river).

I am not used to sunfish fry, i assumed the reddish eyes and metallic blue headfs would be a quick ID to those who know them. If they are lepomis then it narrows it down to three species (bluegill, pumpkinseed, and redbreast, all of which are in this river).

yeah, and the elongate body shape helps, too... no need to throw it under a scope. Think through what it's NOT.

yeah, and the elongate body shape helps, too... no need to throw it under a scope. Think through what it's NOT.

At first the talk of elongated body and red eye made me think smallmouth bass but that doesn't seem like what it is (though they are found in the river).

I looked at pictures of the three lepomis species in the river. Bluegill is eliminated as no picture of a bluegill i saw had red eyes. Add in elongated body and it narrows it down to redbreast.

The red eye screams rock bass at me for some reason but I can't say I've ever seen one so small. It might be gloriosus or obesus but again I have never seen such small ones.

Edited by Lotsapetsgarfhts, 04 August 2010 - 12:53 PM.

The red eye screams rock bass at me for some reason but I can't say I've ever seen one so small. It might be gloriosus or obesus but again I have never seen such small ones.

I did consider rock bass but dismissed it as I never seen metallic blue on a rock bass.

green sunnie.