ID Help Please

I need help Id-ing some fish from our first "official" collecting trip; We were collecting in a small stream (private property) in Eastern West Virginia. We collected 2 different types of fish, any help would be appreciated. I have purchased guides to fish in the areas that we frequent and have made an educated guess at which each are, my biggest problem is how do you narrow down the identification process, I started by patterns/colors/size, but realize that this varies greatly. Whats the best way to tell if you have an adult of a small fish or just a young large fish? Thanks in Advance.

Central Stoneroller (campostoma anomalum)??



My husband thinks this is a small bass or close relative of some sort??



Thanks Again

Catostomus commersoni
Campostoma anomalum
Micropterus salmoides

Blake

Edited by blakemarkwell, 04 August 2010 - 10:21 PM.

hi there,

it looks like you collected three species of fish; the top photo is a white sucker -- note how far back on the body the anal fin, the lips are positioned further under the head than in stonerollers, and the scales are much smaller than stonerollers, and yes, the other fish are largemouth bass

For eastern WV, there's a free key to freshwater fishes published by Maryland DNR that's available at www.dnr.state.md.us/irc/docs/00010619.pdf... and yes, it's a tiny bit of shameless self-promotion! It should cover everything that you're likely to encounter in the WV portion of the Potomac drainage (mountain redbelly dace occur a little further south in the Virginia portion of the Potomac, but I don't know of any WV records yet...)

The characters in the key provide a pretty good way to think about IDing fish; start with asking simple questions like "does it have jaws" and progress from there. Once you feel confident getting things identified to the right family, more complex characters (like the number of anal fin rays, shape of lateral line scales, or position of barbels) will seem easier to pick up on. Relax, no reason to get overwhelmed! A good friend of mine tries to learn one new fish every day -- that's a good approach!

Also, please don't take this the wrong way (it's NOT a personal attack and given some recent discussion I'm surprised a mod hasn't already chimed in on this), but you might want to consider trying to learn your fish before bringing them home; knowing what you are keeping makes it much easier to ensure that you can provide proper care, as well as avoiding potential take of rare, threatened, or endangered species.

There's a new WV book in the works, but no idea when it might actually get published. I've seen some of the illustrations, and they're dang good.

hope this helps!

Edited by daveneely, 04 August 2010 - 10:31 PM.

Thanks, our first thought was that it was a sucker of some sort, but its mouth didnt seem to be as "suction-y" as the pictures the ID book had; We did make it a point to look up the endangered/threatened fish in the area we were going to be collecting and knew what to look for to make sure we didnt bring anything we shouldnt home Once we get into this a little more we are hoping to be able to find some mountain redbelly dace, as I read on the VA website that it has been found in highland county va, which is close to where we were at. Thanks again!!

Have to say, when Dave talks, its good to listen.

toddandmarlana, I know you made an effort to identify these fish but you really need to know what you have before taking them home. The bass that you have will grow pretty quickly and eat your other fish so I'm hoping you have a large tank for them. If you don't, I recommend euthanizing them now while they are small.

If you would like, I can take you out when the weather is cooler and help you guys identify these species. If you are going to continue collecting fish in VA / WVA, I'd recommend purchasing Fishes of VA (http://www.afsbooks....a&category_id=0). It is a little pricey but worth every penny. Another book is Fritz Rohde's book, http://www.amazon.co...81009469&sr=8-1.

To add to dave's resources...

This is a different (much older) Fishes of WV Book. You can read the entire thing online, although I'm sure there is plenty of outdated information in there, but may be a good start, especially until the new Fishes of WV hits the market, and yes I've also seen some of the illustrations, and they are pretty nice.

(mountain redbelly dace occur a little further south in the Virginia portion of the Potomac, but I don't know of any WV records yet...)

I collected a handful of MRD in a small stream in the South Branch watershed near Franklin, WV in 2006. I suspect given the proximity to the road that it may have been a bait-bucket introduction. I reported that information to the WVDNR, although I don't know if they spread or established themselves.

Thanks for the PDF Dave! I can't believe I've missed that all these days spent pouring over state books and internet-based resources. I was going to respond with a little bit more detail than my initial response, but I had to run.... Anyways, you filled the void much better than I could have!

Blake

I'll continue with Dave's shameless self promotion with this link. We have updated a few things taxonomically since the 2003 edition. Note, there is also an error in the Pirate perch couplet. Pectoral fins and pelvic fins are used incorrectly. I can't remember what it says and what it should be, but it will be fixed soon. Also, we are working on adding Mimic shiner (Notropis volucellus) as it s found in the Susquehanna River above Conwogino dam now.

toddandmarlana, I know you made an effort to identify these fish but you really need to know what you have before taking them home. The bass that you have will grow pretty quickly and eat your other fish so I'm hoping you have a large tank for them. If you don't, I recommend euthanizing them now while they are small.

If you would like, I can take you out when the weather is cooler and help you guys identify these species. If you are going to continue collecting fish in VA / WVA, I'd recommend purchasing Fishes of VA (http://www.afsbooks....a&category_id=0). It is a little pricey but worth every penny. Another book is Fritz Rohde's book, http://www.amazon.co...1009469&sr=8-1.

The fish are currently all in a 125g, but we will be getting another of equal or larger size within the next few weeks and will be seperating the tank at that point. Would the bass be okay in a 125, or should I go larger for them?
Thanks for the offer to take us out and help us with identifying fish, that would be very helpful and appreciated!
We ordered Fritz Rohde's book, and have found it very useful thus far.

I collected a handful of MRD in a small stream in the South Branch watershed near Franklin, WV in 2006. I suspect given the proximity to the road that it may have been a bait-bucket introduction. I reported that information to the WVDNR, although I don't know if they spread or established themselves.

I had noticed on the usgs website that they had been sampled in 1975 in Highland County, VA in a creek of the South Branch system. We hope to return in the future in search of some; But I am waiting to get established in our collecting and identifying skills before we do so.

Thanks again for all your helpful information.

If you want to collect MRD, I would go over the divide to the Cheat River watershed. They are fairly common in the higher elevation streams in most of the Cheat's subdrainages (Shaver's Fork, Gandy, etc.).