I posted about a fish I found in an order of feeder goldfish from work. I have been told he is some kind of sunfish, but as to what kind, I'm not sure. He is currently being housed in a 2.5g tank. Yes I know that is entirely too small for just about any fish, but he is being moved into a 10g as soon as it is set up and cycled. He is about an inch long.

Now, I have never cared for a native fish before so yes, I am a complete idiot for taking him in when I have no clue what I'm doing, but I didn't want the little guy to become some other fish's lunch. So he's here now and I want to give him the proper care. My husband has named him Gill. Original, I know.

So I guess the first area of care to get straightened out is tank size and water requirements. He is being moved into a 10g as he is only an inch long and putting up the money for a 55g right now seems a bit much for such a tiny fish. I plan on moving him to a 20g long as soon as he outgrows the 10g. A few weeks ago I had no clue there was even such a thing as a sunfish. That is just how much I really don't know. What kind of water do they prefer? I did read they like water temps to be between 60 and 75. Anything else I need to know about the kind of water they like?

Lighting is another area of care I don't know much about with these guys. I read they lke low light levels. How do I achieve this in an aquarium? For now I will be using a simple florescent bulb that comes with the fixture.

He has been eating bloodworms about once a day (usually 5-6 at a time). Is there anything else I can be feeding him at this size?

What about tankmates? I read that sunfish can be aggressive and to only keep them with members of their own species or other aggressive fish. Now, I have never gone out and caught fish in the wild and brought them home for an aquarium, so any ideas on what kind of species he can be housed with would be nice. I'd like to make it as natural as possible, perhaps even mimicing their natural habitat as far as plants, fish species, and substrate.

I will be looking through this section on the hunt for any threads already created about sunfish care and see what I can dig up. It was just easier to put all my questions in one place just in case someone had a few answers.

-water temps-room temps should and will be fine....im guessing room temp isnt 30 degrees or 100 degress. normal room temp is good.
-no specific lighting is needed.
-all tank mates will be food. some people suggest over stocking sunfish much like cichlids. but in a 10 gallon id say do not do that.
-at this size frozen bloodworms. mysis shrimp, brine, flake, blackworms, or even small guppies.


i would suggested you had taken a pic before you got him. if you are really into natives there are alot of other fish that would have been great for a new person setup. now it seems you will have a solitary fish...im afraid that may get boring for you. although it might not. just my opinion.

He was in a tank full of feeder goldfish. He came into the store by accident and I didn't want him to become lunch. A few years ago I was really wanting to get into keeping fish and was beginning to educate myself on keeping the standard tropical fish you get from Petsmart but when I moved out of my grandmother's house I took all my tanks down and never had a chance to continue keeping fish other than little Betta fish until now. This little guy has kind of spurred me into keeping fish again and I'm becoming more interested in the hobby again. (I also have a reptile hobby)

I don't mind if he is a solitary fish. I figure as he outgrows his tanks, I can always then use them to house other types of fish.

At one inch long, he can eat a small guppy? He seems so tiny. I will pick up some other types of frozen foods and see what he likes. He's incredibly shy. He hides every time I come near the tank. Now, as far as setting up a tank that will mimic his natural habitat, how would I go about doing that as far as substrate, plants, etc?

First, two disclaimers. I'm going to preface this post by saying that not everyone agrees with me. I do not speak for NANFA here, but for myself. Most people here don't use my kitty litter substrate home depot light sketchy methods.

And a second disclaimer. You might want give some thought to identifying the species you have and what area and pH of water it comes from. You have to know where it lives in the wild to know what sort of water to emulate. It probably comes from your area, which means that it's most likely okay with the pH and degrees of general hardness that your water is. I wouldn't expect you'd have to change anything. That's the great thing about keeping fish native to your area; your local water supply is just their cup of tea. Versus if you were trying to keep african cichlids (8+ pH, 15+ degrees of hardness) or discus (5 to 6 pH, 0 to 5 degrees of hardness). If you kept those fish, you'd have to change your water to emulate their natural environment. While the people who live in Africa have tap water that is already perfect for cichlids and the people who live in Brazil have perfect water for discus. That's the home field native fish advantage; no modification. So although that was long and rambling, the point is that you probably don't have to try to change your pH or water hardness because if the fish came from your area then it'll like the water you have already. Probably.
Also, if you know the species, you can learn how it interacts with others of its kind in the wild. If it lives in a group or alone, and how they court one another and spawn. And what they eat in the wild. Example: http://www.dgif.virg...asp?fish=010181

Okay, so, having said that. Here's what I'd do:
I'd go to Walmart and buy a bag of Special Kitty brand kitty litter. These articles: 1. http://www.thekrib.c...rate-jamie.html 2. http://www.thekrib.c...te-jamie.html#1 explain scientifically why it's a good substrate for plant growth. In lay-mens' terms, kitty litter has the same nutritional content as really expensive specially made plant fertilizers like fluorite, and maintains that nutrient content over time because it has a high CEC (Cation Exchange Coefficient). A high CEC means that kitty litter can replenish the nutrients that the plants take out of it when it grows by getting them from the water column, where they would otherwise be dumped out during water changes.
If you mix the kitty litter with another substrate, such as normal pea sized aquarium gravel or aragonite (aragonite is useful if you want to buffer the pH up above 7; cichlid keepers use aragonite), then it helps it not to compact too much over time. And you can gravel siphon the mixture just like you would a normal tank.
Check that there are no additives to the kitty litter that you buy other than baked clay. The chemicals they add to brand name litters to clump the litter are not safe for fish.
Special Kitty brand kitty litter is also $4 for 40 lbs, so it's not expensive. Use google shopping to price out Eco-Complete or Fluorite substrate and you'll see how expensive substrate can be. http://www.google.co...rate&hl=en&aq=f and http://www.google.co...rate&hl=en&aq=f Now imagine buying more than one of those bags...

Next, I'd buy some plants. Here is a website with a list of plants that grow in your area: http://www.dgif.virg...FISHING/weedid/ Click on the "Submergent" picture hyperlink. This list is very useful because you know that these plants can and will thrive in the pH and GH of water that comes out of your tap. They like your local water conditions. So you can pick one or two or three that you think are pretty and buy them from aquabid.com or go collect some yourself (get a fishing license first if you're collecting). Any rooted plants you buy will do great in your kitty litter / gravel combination substrate. The Special Kitty brand litter is usually made from local baked clay, so it's the same thing as if you went to a river in your area and collected mud and baked it. The same mineral content and whatnot. So don't worry about the plants being compatible with the substrate; they'll grow great.

Next, lighting. You're gonna need a light. If you already have a light on your tank and you're happy with the plastic hood and stuff, then cool. If after a few weeks or a month or so you find that the plants aren't really growing, then you can add more lights by going to your local home supplies store (in my area it's Home Depot) and going to the lighting section. Measure your tank before you go in. I, for example, boosted my light by buying a 4 foot long overhead shop light for my tank that sits perfectly nicely on the tank. And I bought full spectrum bulbs for it, which the plants absolutely love. The whole thing, light and bulbs, was $30 flat. A 24 inch hood is $40 and a bulb for it is $20, so 4 feet of lighting from a pet store would have cost me $120. I love Home Depot.
Your fish will be fine with the lights you use. Give it a $2 terra cotta pot lain on its side for a cave, and if it doesn't hide in it, then you know the lights aren't hurting its eyes.

Next, CO2. That's one of those things most people on this site seem to say is "too much trouble". I disagree. Every two weeks I put a tablespoon of baker's yeast and 2 cups of sugar in a 2 Liter soda pop bottle and tighten the cap I made for it using $2 of airline tubing and a $15 CO2 dispenser from aqmagic.com (great website). Instructions for making it are here: http://www.plantedta...IY-Yeast-CO2/7/ Getting the cap airtight is the part people mess up the most. You don't need sealant, like how that DIY CO2 website I just linked you to above says to do. Just cut the air line tube on a diagonal and then pull the tube through the hole. Alight from http://forum.simplyd...ead.php?t=46714 says, "One tip from Rex Rigg is that you don't need any special connector for your airline through the bottle caps. You can just drill the holes smaller than the air line, cut the airline to a point (diagonal cut) then feed it through the hole and pull it further through with pliers. Works very well." Because CO2 is the limiting reactant, so to say, in plant growth, you'll see huge results in growth from adding CO2. If you're wondering whether that sounds like it's worth it, here's some plant envy pictures for ya: http://showcase.aqua...e=view-showcase

And add a filter. I personally like waterfall filters (like this: http://www.aquarticl...g/Waterfall.JPG ) because they're inexpensive and they work. Especially if there's a layer of mechanical filtering (filter floss. Removes physical detritus like small particles), a layer of biological filtering (bioballs or a sponge. High surface area gives lots of area for beneficial bacteria to live), and a layer of activated carbon (chemical filtration, removes large molecules like wood tannins. Needs to be replaced every three weeks to a month.)

And buy a test kit. It's a new tank, so the population of beneficial bacteria is too small to be able to rapidly degrade the fish waste from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. Here, this article can explain more: http://www.fishkeepi...ing-article.htm Test your water daily for the first few weeks. If you ammonia or nitrite rise to a dangerous level, do a partial water change.

And never start a gravel siphon with your mouth. That's gross and it exposes you to fish disease. You can start it really simply just by 1. plugging the small tube end with your finger, 2. filling the siphon with water, 3. putting the small tube end down below the big end in a bucket, and then 4. releasing your hold on the end while the big tube end is submerged. Gravity will start the siphon for you. Don't suck on the end.

As for feeding: Any single food fed by itself will lead to malnourishment. You need a variety of foods in order to get a balanced diet with the complete spectrum of nutrients. Have you ever seen a dog eat grass? Most carnivores still need some vegetable in their diet. Go to a pet store and buy small containers of the different foods you find there and see what your fish will eat. And keep in mind that just as children won't eat their vegetables but may grow into loving them, your fish's tastes will change as it ages. As the fish gets big, try different foods again. The juvenile diet often differs from the adult diet.

*nods* Yup. You should be fine. Enjoy your new fish! Remember that you should never release anything into the wild. If you get sick of it, sell it on aquabid.com or craigslist.org or give it to a local aquarium if it's big enough, or to monster fish rescue.

Edit: Oh yes, I forgot to mention. If you go on craigslist.org you can find large used tanks for super cheap. This is important because your fish will not grow as quickly if it is in a small tank as it would if it was in a larger tank. They stunt themselves, you see, and their growth rate slows. Logically, if the growth rate is a variable based on tank size, you cannot decide when to upgrade to a large tank based upon the fish's size. It won't grow as fast as it approaches 'too large' because it'll stunt itself. It's much better just to start out in a large tank. Then you're good from the beginning. No future moves necessary. And with a 150 gallon tank for $125 on craigslist, why not?

Edited by Okiimiru, 11 August 2010 - 02:39 PM.

Most likely the fish came from arkansas. Where most feeders originate. If you provide clean water that fish will be much better off then where it came from

Zookeeper, it sounds as if you are on the right track. If you have kept tropicals before, then switching to natives isn't all that hard. The main difference is to take out the heater.

Otherwise, your setup sounds fine. If the fish is a sunfish, it will eat flake food easily. In fact, if it came in with feeders, it is probably already used to eating prepared foods. Of course, you are free to spoil it with more fishy items.

For light, your setup is fine unless you want to start adding plants. But if not, add some nice rocks and maybe some driftwood to make the habitat interesting for the fish and for you. When the fish gets a little larger, you may want to add in some smaller fishes, such as shiners, that would do well with your fish. There are a number of us in Virginia, and we go out collecting every now and again. Keep tabs on the "regional" section, and someone is bound to post an upcoming trip once the weather cools down.

Collecting as in going out and catching fish to keep in an aquarium? That sounds fun. Do you need a fishing license? I have one.

Collecting as in going out and catching fish to keep in an aquarium? That sounds fun. Do you need a fishing license? I have one.

Yep, and it's an fantastic amount of fun. More fun than a barrel full of American eels. A fishing license is all that is needed in Virginia to collect a wide variety of species. There are specific rules that we have to follow regarding which method of capture for which species (game species can only be kept if caught by hook and line), and there are some species that can not be kept at all, but it's pretty easy to understand. If you go out with a group of us, you should pick it up pretty quickly.

That sounds like tons of fun. I will update on my progress with keeping the sunfish. I have a feeling if I hang around here much longer I'm going to be setting up more tanks and spending more time outside by the water.

I posted about a fish I found in an order of feeder goldfish from work. I have been told he is some kind of sunfish, but as to what kind, I'm not sure. He is currently being housed in a 2.5g tank. Yes I know that is entirely too small for just about any fish, but he is being moved into a 10g as soon as it is set up and cycled. He is about an inch long.

Now, I have never cared for a native fish before so yes, I am a complete idiot for taking him in when I have no clue what I'm doing, but I didn't want the little guy to become some other fish's lunch. So he's here now and I want to give him the proper care. My husband has named him Gill. Original, I know.

So I guess the first area of care to get straightened out is tank size and water requirements. He is being moved into a 10g as he is only an inch long and putting up the money for a 55g right now seems a bit much for such a tiny fish. I plan on moving him to a 20g long as soon as he outgrows the 10g. A few weeks ago I had no clue there was even such a thing as a sunfish. That is just how much I really don't know. What kind of water do they prefer? I did read they like water temps to be between 60 and 75. Anything else I need to know about the kind of water they like?

Lighting is another area of care I don't know much about with these guys. I read they lke low light levels. How do I achieve this in an aquarium? For now I will be using a simple florescent bulb that comes with the fixture.

He has been eating bloodworms about once a day (usually 5-6 at a time). Is there anything else I can be feeding him at this size?

What about tankmates? I read that sunfish can be aggressive and to only keep them with members of their own species or other aggressive fish. Now, I have never gone out and caught fish in the wild and brought them home for an aquarium, so any ideas on what kind of species he can be housed with would be nice. I'd like to make it as natural as possible, perhaps even mimicing their natural habitat as far as plants, fish species, and substrate.

I will be looking through this section on the hunt for any threads already created about sunfish care and see what I can dig up. It was just easier to put all my questions in one place just in case someone had a few answers.

Can you post a picture? Some sunfish get fairly large, others stay small. I got a beautiful bluespotted sunfish from the feeder tank at my LFS. I also got a green sunfish from the LFs which I am kind of regretting... He's got a lot of personality though.
I keep my sunnies in a nice (walstad method) planted tank. It is great for most of the year, but when they get fired up they dig big nest pits in the front and tear out all the plants in that area. The back end of the tank is still well planted though. I use T-8 lights with 6,500K "daylight" or preferably "cool white" bulbs from the hardware store. I have expensive T-5 aquarium lights on some of my tanks, but they only look a little nicer and function about the same.

I posted a picture of him in the ID section.

Although I have not seen the picture I asume he is a green sunfish. Two of my three green sunfish are from the goldfish feeder tank at my local petco. I don't think this helps any but if it is infact a green sunfish they grow big and are very territorial.

.....and very big mouths.

I have a feeling if I hang around here much longer I'm going to be setting up more tanks and spending more time outside by the water.

That happens to a lot of people here. You should see the setups that some folks wind up with, especially those that lack spousal supervision!

With a sunfish you can seem to feed them anything, atleast that's my experience with bluegills and pumpkinseeds. Worms, Earthworms, shrimp, feeder fish (although you risk spreading disease into your tank, so it's probably not worth it), crickets, krill, mealworms...you get the idea. I've experienced a lot of aggression in my 36 gallon between species of sunfish, but none with the largemouth bass and yellow perch that also house the 36 gallon. If I were you, I'd spoil the little sunnie. Get some driftwood (boil it and rinse it), rocks, plants to spice up your tank and make it much more comfortable. And before you know it, every time you walk into the room, it'll rise to the surface anticipating a feeding. Pretty fun stuff!

Edited by MWBradshaw, 12 August 2010 - 11:04 AM.

I've heard that a green sunfish would be a good fish to keep all by itself, like people sometimes do Oscars.

Well he has been moved to a 10g tank with some decoration and 2 plants (one live, one fake). I'm still getting everything set up so it is no where near done. I can't seem to find him though. There isn't much in the tank. Only a piece of fake driftwood and two plants. I've checked everywhere but the fake decoration does have holes in it. Do you think he could have hidden there?

He eagerly accepts bloodworms as food. I'm going to see if he will eat other types of frozen foods as I want him to have a variety. He already looks slightly different than he did when he first came in. I'll take a picture as soon as I can find him or he comes out of hiding.

Also, will he eat feeder fish as he is older? I have a small supply of fish fry from work (I work in a pet store). Guppies and other livebearers are always having babies and if I can catch them in time, I am allowed to take them home. Do you think he'd eat these?

Edited by ZooKeeper, 16 August 2010 - 09:40 AM.

Yeah, I watched my 3 inch bluegill take down a small feeder, if they are fry, he would probably have no problem. You just run the risk of spreading disease/bacteria into your tank as the feeder fish are kept in pretty poor conditions. As for your hiding sunfish, do you have a top on your aquarium to prevent jumping out? I've heard people have aquariums without tops and fish never jump out, and I've heard of people whose fish jump out if they leave the top of over night. Just something to think about, or maybe to search........

I had 2 green sunfish in a tank, about 2-3 inches they were, One night I came down randomly to check on them because they were bullying each other quite a bit. Looked around and could only find one, started checking the floor and there was the other one, laying on the floor behind the tank, had jumped out of a hole about 3" across. He was pretty dry, looked like he wanted to give up a couple times when I put him back in, but he ended up making it. So i'd definitely cover the tank/check the floor, green sunfish are jumpers.

There are holes in his decorations that he can get into. My mother in law said she saw him swimming around earlier. I'm getting a canopy for the tank today. I was thinking of raising my own feeder fish. Guppies maybe?