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Pictures and Video

Started by Michael Wolfe , Jan 25 2007 12:27 PM

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16 replies to this topic

#1 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 25 January 2007 - 12:27 PM

Here are a few pictures from my house. I have never posted pictures to this site before so we will see how it turns out... Some of these are not as good as I would like (still working on my fish photography) , but to improve things I also have included links to the google video site for video of several of the tanks. So here goes...

Banded Sunfish... this tank is so dark... the fish likes it a lot... the camera does not.

Banded_1.jpg 33.86KB 3 downloads

Look, Dustin it's your avatar swimming at my house!
video link http://video.google....844352422791758

FB_4.jpg 29.05KB 4 downloads

This is a pair of Golden Ear Topminnows I picked up at the LFS about 1 1/2 years ago as little slivers swimming in the plant tank. THey have grown up nicely and the black coloring on the male is great... wish I could breed them, but they are in a 75 gallon heavily planted communicty tank, and I cannot catch them.
video link http://video.google....960820392408500

Fundulus_Pair.jpg 48.57KB 3 downloads

This is the sucker that I was asking about a week or so ago. Is it a red horse?
Here is a video link so you can see the fish better (and his little brother).
http://video.google....877822538932578

Sucker_1.jpg 24.91KB 5 downloads

In my part of north georgia, this is what a stream looks like... yellowfin shiners, creek chubs, and tourquoise darters.
video link http://video.google....533276099796071

YFS_3.jpg 50.19KB 3 downloads

Extra video link of some yellowfin shiners in another tank with some of what I think are very juvenile bluehead chubs (another common fish in my area)...
http://video.google....159474794639690

Well, looks like my photos worked... hopefully the links to the video work for you as well... let me know...

Attached Files

FB_3.jpg 33.33KB 3 downloads

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#2 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 12:47 PM

hmmm... I hate to break it too you but I don't think that is a sucker at all... the origin of the anal fin is too far forward, it looks to me like it is some kind of a chub. Honestly I don't know minnow species all that well though once I get out of Ohio but it is a minnow of some kind.

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#3 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 02:23 PM

Possibly phenacobius? Riffle minnow maybe?

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#4 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 06:23 PM

That's a great looking tank Michael

Man I need some fiery blacks.

Good eye Matt. If I HAD put cash on it with as distorted a view as the media allows us to see... I would agree with Matt and say it's one of the "chubs", either genus Hybognathus or Macrhybopsis.

Can you see barbels on it?

Silver Chub
http://www.speciesat...m?SpeciesID=114

Mississippi Silvery Minnow
http://www.gen.umn.e...ery_minnow.html
(the mouth is far more underslung than this picture shows)

Obviously, a more clear picture would be very helpful! Nice stuff either way. If it's a silver chub, Macrhybopsis typically transports like crap, so you've done well. And I'll be insanely jealous that I didn't get any

Did you take any fish from the Mississippi River trip? That may quickly rule out the silver chub.

See if you can't get a more contrasted picture of the fish.

Todd

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#5 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 06:48 PM

Actually Brian noticed first, but I would be happy to take credit. :smile:

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#6 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 25 January 2007 - 10:12 PM

Thanks for the kind words regarding the main tank... and yeah the fiery blacks are great...

Regards the clarity of the video... watch it again and click on the little triangle on the bottom right of the video screen and make sure that the video is playing as "original size" not "fit to window" This keeps it as clear as it can be given the limitations of loading video on the web. I will also try to get s clearer snapshot... the one I posted is actually a video frame grab...

Anyway, regarding the fish... I am 100% sure that the fish came from the Black River trip. Looks more like the silvery chub from the links that you posted... I would disagree with the riffle minnow idea... the fish has no dark line on its side... it is just silvery white everywhere except for a small dark mark near its "nose".

As far as transport, I did nothing special... treated them like they were shiners... which they were transported with... maybe it helped that they are so small... as you can see they are much smaller than the shiners and smaller than the darters. (Bonus identification question... what are those metallic green darters?... I got them a year or so ago from my LFS... they were labeled as "glass shrimp" and were originally only about one inch long slivers of silver).

Anyway I will work on a better snap and take a look at my Missouri Book, to see what this Black River native might be...???

MW

That's a great looking tank Michael Man I need some fiery blacks.

Good eye Matt. If I HAD put cash on it with as distorted a view as the media allows us to see... I would agree with Matt and say it's one of the "chubs", either genus Hybognathus or Macrhybopsis.

Can you see barbels on it?

Silver Chub
http://www.speciesat...m?SpeciesID=114

Mississippi Silvery Minnow
http://www.gen.umn.e...ery_minnow.html
(the mouth is far more underslung than this picture shows)

Obviously, a more clear picture would be very helpful! Nice stuff either way. If it's a silver chub, Macrhybopsis typically transports like crap, so you've done well. And I'll be insanely jealous that I didn't get any

Did you take any fish from the Mississippi River trip? That may quickly rule out the silver chub.

See if you can't get a more contrasted picture of the fish.

Todd

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#7 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 11:41 PM

would need a good picture to be sure but I bet the darters are swamp darters. I often find them in gost shrimp tanks in lfs all the time. It seems they must collect those ghost shrimp from the "wild" in florida and the big tropical fish farms ship them all over the country. I have found quite a few different species in with feeders or ghost shrimp... green sunfish, bluegill, golden topminnows, seminole killifish, bluefin killifish, flagfish, sheepshead minnows, swamp darters, sailfin mollies, mosquitofish, and least killifish. The most common finds are the swamp darters, bluefin killies, and mosquitofish. I'll add a picture of a swamp darter I rescued out of a feeder tank.

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#8 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 12:08 AM

My bad, Michael. That did the trick. I'm 99% sure that's a Hybognathus. See how it has that almost platinum square patch on the snout? That's pretty tell tale. I saw it before, but with the pixelation reduced, you can really see it.

Now the species...? In looking in Fishes of Alabama, which is the only book I have home right now, I see that you have a couple options. Neely only ID'd the Mississippi silvery minnow, nuchalis. But the Black River is another of those wonderful biogeographic hotspots where there's expansion north into similar habitats along the Ol' Miss. So it could also be the cypress minnow, hayi. The difference between them is terribly nuanced, so this isn't a dis on his ID skills. That's why you take vouchers

Man, this Outdoor Alabama site is awesome! I didn't realize the depth of stuff they've put up here. I gotta get these books.

Anyway, enough of that quick tangent. For more info:

http://www.outdooral...minnow/cypress/

http://www.outdooral...ther/minnow/ms/

The cypress scales are more diamond shaped. The silvery are round. It helps to have both at home, else I wouldn't have been able to tell that I'd brought home hayi from a recent trip down into Wonderland.

Todd

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#9 Guest_itsme_*

Guests

Posted 26 January 2007 - 01:01 AM

Wow, Mike, I've never seen a chrysotus with that much black! You need to breed that thing. Also get some good pictures of it. Has anyone ever seen one like that?

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#10 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 29 January 2007 - 04:54 PM

Hey Mark, I have triede several times to get them out of that tank and it is really an exercise in frustration... I mean he's so big and easy to see and they move so slow and gracefully... until you try to net him and then he's lightning fast and disappears. Maybe I will try again... I have a 6 gallon eclipse tank set up that I could put the two of them in... I should read up some on what it would take to gett them to breed...

Wow, Mike, I've never seen a chrysotus with that much black! You need to breed that thing. Also get some good pictures of it. Has anyone ever seen one like that?

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#11 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 29 January 2007 - 05:23 PM

I don't want to argue after asking for your opinion, but I am confused by what you are saying...

This fish has none of the slab sided characteristics of the minnows Hybognathus. And looking at the drawing of the Silver Chub (Macrhybopsis storeriana) on page 210 the only coloration I see is the darkish mark on the snout. I also see the body shape as described as "ventrally flattenened" to be more in line with the fish I am observing.

I looked in Alabama (both), Mississippi, Arkansas, Missouri, and Ohio fish books and the descriptions seem to fit better with the Silver Chub...

I am going to have to take more pictures... until I can convince you (and myself)that it is a silver chub... looks right to me and would be very cool to see this little guy get to be 8 inches of silvery chubness!

MW

My bad, Michael. That did the trick. I'm 99% sure that's a Hybognathus. See how it has that almost platinum square patch on the snout? That's pretty tell tale. I saw it before, but with the pixelation reduced, you can really see it.

Now the species...? In looking in Fishes of Alabama, which is the only book I have home right now, I see that you have a couple options. Neely only ID'd the Mississippi silvery minnow, nuchalis. But the Black River is another of those wonderful biogeographic hotspots where there's expansion north into similar habitats along the Ol' Miss. So it could also be the cypress minnow, hayi. The difference between them is terribly nuanced, so this isn't a dis on his ID skills. That's why you take vouchers

Man, this Outdoor Alabama site is awesome! I didn't realize the depth of stuff they've put up here. I gotta get these books.

Anyway, enough of that quick tangent. For more info:

http://www.outdooral...minnow/cypress/

http://www.outdooral...ther/minnow/ms/

The cypress scales are more diamond shaped. The silvery are round. It helps to have both at home, else I wouldn't have been able to tell that I'd brought home hayi from a recent trip down into Wonderland.

Todd

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#12 Guest_daveneely_*

Guests

Posted 29 January 2007 - 07:45 PM

I snapped the little heads off of the hybogs I brought back to double check the IDs from the basioccipital process. All of the ones I called H. nuchalis were nuchalis. Hybognathus hayi is is a totally different fish, if you saw them and were paying attention, you'd know it.

I don't think it's a silver chub, just doesn't have the right gestalt. My suggestion is to look at the scales on the nape (the back right behind the head). My guess is that they'll be noticably smaller than the scales on the side, and you might notice a short stumpy-looking ray at the front of the dorsal fin and a dusky spot at the front of the fin...

cheers,
Dave

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#13 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 29 January 2007 - 08:05 PM

Good to see you here Dave and thanks for the follow up. It's still nuanced to me, I'll compare my now preserved specimen (city decided to switch to chloramine last week when I did all my water changes!!!) against nuchalis that's still enjoying the heavy feeding the 100 gallon. That stumpy ray is impressive, I don't remember that being in the description, but what a good charcteristic to look at, once you're aware of it.

And if you haven't found you way to this yet, check out "View New Posts" up there in the "logged in as" line. This software took care of all the things I couldn't stand about boards, and did a jump on the email. Now I only interrupt myself once a day unless I'm procrastinating

Todd

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#14 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 29 January 2007 - 08:11 PM

Todd,

That stumpy ray is impressive, I don't remember that being in the description, but what a good charcteristic to look at, once you're aware of it.

Umm, yeah, that's because I think the fish in question might be a bullhead minnow...

Thanks for the forum pointers. You can't "view new posts" unless you're logged in, so someone who's just browsing without trying to sign up can get really, really frustrated...

Cheers,
Dave

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#15 Guest_NateTessler13_*

Guests

Posted 29 January 2007 - 11:04 PM

The tanks look great!

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#16 Guest_itsme_*

Guests

Posted 30 January 2007 - 01:11 AM

Hey Mark, I have triede several times to get them out of that tank and it is really an exercise in frustration... I mean he's so big and easy to see and they move so slow and gracefully... until you try to net him and then he's lightning fast and disappears. Maybe I will try again... I have a 6 gallon eclipse tank set up that I could put the two of them in... I should read up some on what it would take to get them to breed...

Re: Black F Chrysotus

I think all you really have to do is keep them warm and well fed. Maybe not even well fed! I put three of them out in a large liner tank on my patio last summer, and then left town for several weeks. When I got back, I had somewhere in the neighborhood of 30! That's what I call low-maintenance! :razz:

Temps got quite high here last summer, even into the 100's.

If you happen to catch him and aren't inspired to do the spawning thing, I'll be happy to trade you or buy him. I have some blackspotted females that might suit his fancy :smile:

Really though, that's a specimen that needs some good photo documentation. I'd like to know how common that degree of melanism is in that species. Seems like you could do the molly thing and produce an all black strain. Some day I'll get hold of one of those black bowfins too!

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#17 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 30 January 2007 - 03:59 PM

Dave,

Ah, *that* stumpy

Perhaps it was the muscle relaxers (I ripped a muscle in my abdomen, I'd take back pain any day over this!) but it seems that there is a leading dorsal ray on at least the ol' Miss silvery that looks something like the joints on an umbrella. Is it acutally hinged? Or is this all in my head? But back to the question at hand...

I definately agree that's a possibility, however, Michael's text from earlier on would have indicated something different. I think he would have said there were dorsal and basalcaudal spots:

Anyway, regarding the fish... I am 100% sure that the fish came from the Black River trip. Looks more like the silvery chub from the links that you posted... I would disagree with the riffle minnow idea... the fish has no dark line on its side... it is just silvery white everywhere except for a small dark mark near its "nose".

I've played with the contrast. It tells us nothing. Really, we're all throwing darts blindfolded until we see a better contrasting picture. If you can get it all in frame Michael, I can futz with it in zee Photo Programme and bump up the contrast.

michaelsfish.jpg 37.5KB 0 downloads

And yes, it's incredibly frustrating and overwhelming until you register and then see that trick. I just always stay logged in.

Todd