I have a few questions about identifying Madtoms with the assistance of the pectoral spines.
Should I be able to see the prominent spine structures on a 4~5" TL specimen without removing the spine?
If I needed to remove and more closely observe the structures, what is recommended for removal and more importantly, how do you clean them?
Are special preservation methods recommended for this?
I might be asking the wrong questions here so any advice in using pectoral spines in Madtom ID would be greatly appreciated.
Questions about Madtom pectoral spines
Started by
Guest_Uland_*
, Aug 30 2010 08:36 AM
6 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_daveneely_*
Guest_daveneely_*
-
- Guests
Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:28 PM
hey U.,
While you might not be able to see both anterior and posterior serrae without removing the spine, you'll certainly be able to feel them; probe with a needle or fine forceps. You can do this on live fish without completely destroying the fin or injuring the fish, once you figure out what you're looking for. If you do need to pull the spine for a voucher, you can clean the spine by picking with a pair of forceps (if it's formalin or ethanol preserved) or remove the tissue by pouring a bit of almost-boiling water over it then using a soft toothbrush to remove the soft tissue.
btw, I'd call that fish exilis...
While you might not be able to see both anterior and posterior serrae without removing the spine, you'll certainly be able to feel them; probe with a needle or fine forceps. You can do this on live fish without completely destroying the fin or injuring the fish, once you figure out what you're looking for. If you do need to pull the spine for a voucher, you can clean the spine by picking with a pair of forceps (if it's formalin or ethanol preserved) or remove the tissue by pouring a bit of almost-boiling water over it then using a soft toothbrush to remove the soft tissue.
btw, I'd call that fish exilis...
#3
Guest_Uland_*
Guest_Uland_*
-
- Guests
Posted 31 August 2010 - 07:02 AM
Golly, thanks Dave. By holding the preserved fish in the light, I can see what appear to be glistening posterior spines but didn't want to damage the voucher with clumsy molestation. I am of course excited since this is will be a new record for N. exilis in this creek. I really appreciate your help and really glad I'm slowly but surely getting to know madtoms a bit better.
I'll carefully pick apart the tissue from the spine with the approval of the collections manager and report back.
I'll carefully pick apart the tissue from the spine with the approval of the collections manager and report back.
#6
Guest_Uland_*
Guest_Uland_*
-
- Guests
Posted 01 September 2010 - 07:09 AM
Matt, I might have taken you to this place?
The first time I visited this stream, I might have not noticed but pretty quickly it struck me the stream was too small for N. flavus (at least smaller than any local stream that has them) and many fish had some marginal color on unpaired fins. It's no secret that I'm pretty bad at catfish ID so I just asked people when they visited the stream about the ID of the fish. Unfortunately, I couldn't get anyone to bite on these fish being exilis with any degree of certainty (for lack of experience with exilis). Now that I've finally taken on photographing catfish, I had to put this mystery to rest. BTW, when rubbing the posterior of the pectoral spine with my thumb, it felt like a comb. I need to keep at this ID and will report what I find.
The first time I visited this stream, I might have not noticed but pretty quickly it struck me the stream was too small for N. flavus (at least smaller than any local stream that has them) and many fish had some marginal color on unpaired fins. It's no secret that I'm pretty bad at catfish ID so I just asked people when they visited the stream about the ID of the fish. Unfortunately, I couldn't get anyone to bite on these fish being exilis with any degree of certainty (for lack of experience with exilis). Now that I've finally taken on photographing catfish, I had to put this mystery to rest. BTW, when rubbing the posterior of the pectoral spine with my thumb, it felt like a comb. I need to keep at this ID and will report what I find.
Reply to this topic
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
NANFA Youtube Channel 
