If circumstances allow I will set up a fair-sized (4 ft. long) stream tank in the next few months, with a moderate current and lots of air injection. It occurs to me that Podostemum would be a good addition to this setup. I think it will do well as long as the free CO2 levels are high, which the atmospheric mixing should provide. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Podostemum ceratophyllum
Started by
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, Aug 31 2010 10:26 AM
15 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_ashtonmj_*
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Posted 31 August 2010 - 04:42 PM
Nate,
Give it a try, but be prepared for a catastrophe. The amount of light needed to sustain Podestemum is outrageous. Just think of the places it generally lives...wide open shoals of rivers that get pounded with sunlight. A better option might be water stargrass. Very pretty yellow flowers, can tolerrate current or slack water, just needs very fine sediment for fiborous roots. Lots of light needed too.
Give it a try, but be prepared for a catastrophe. The amount of light needed to sustain Podestemum is outrageous. Just think of the places it generally lives...wide open shoals of rivers that get pounded with sunlight. A better option might be water stargrass. Very pretty yellow flowers, can tolerrate current or slack water, just needs very fine sediment for fiborous roots. Lots of light needed too.
#3
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Posted 31 August 2010 - 05:27 PM
Thanks Matt! I didn't know H. dubia could tolerate swift water. I'll have to try it. Any idea if plants collected from slack water will adapt to swifter water?
I want to take a shot at some native Potomageton too, get a whole Appalachian mid-order creek community going. Maybe even some golden club and Justicia if the tank is big enough. The big thing I'm worried about is water temperature; will Podostemum survive at room temp year round? Does it need a cool dormant period? I haven't been able to find much online, though its distribution well into the tropics suggest it should survive in relatively warm water year-round as long as sufficient CO2 is available.
I just discovered a hydroponics store in Nashville. Maybe they can provide me with some powerful lights that aren't quite as pricey as the aquarium-specific fixtures. Worth a shot, anyways!
I want to take a shot at some native Potomageton too, get a whole Appalachian mid-order creek community going. Maybe even some golden club and Justicia if the tank is big enough. The big thing I'm worried about is water temperature; will Podostemum survive at room temp year round? Does it need a cool dormant period? I haven't been able to find much online, though its distribution well into the tropics suggest it should survive in relatively warm water year-round as long as sufficient CO2 is available.
I just discovered a hydroponics store in Nashville. Maybe they can provide me with some powerful lights that aren't quite as pricey as the aquarium-specific fixtures. Worth a shot, anyways!
#4
Guest_ashtonmj_*
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Posted 31 August 2010 - 07:25 PM
I've got some older literature on Podestomum and it seems to be an odd bird. The whole vascular plant that loves a niche (ripping swift water in coarse substrate) that no other vascular plant or non-vascular for that matter can really handle. Like you said, it's range is also incredible. Yeah, H. dubia is in a couple of the TN river tailwaters. Pretty thick in parts of the lower French Broad. I could use the stuff to pull myself upstream in parts of the river where it was almost too hard to wade. Over here (Potomac and Susq.) I see it in more slackwater/tidal areas, but it still is in large clumps below Conowingo Dam. The stuff in the tailwaters grows nice and long too, since its getting pulled downstream, and the flowing action is really mesmerizing.
I don't see why the Podostemum wouldn't survive in room temperature water. It is in plenty free flowing streams and non-hypolimnetic tailwaters. I think light is the biggest limiting issue. I did always enjoy bringing a piece of cobble or two into a tank and letting the darters mow it, but other than some thing bright green growths it always died back quickly. The Hiwassee (around RM 37) is a great spot for Potamogetons. I'd find them in slower riffle margins too, they just seem to grow a bit differently. Thicker stems, stay close to the substrate, really shallow waters.
I don't see why the Podostemum wouldn't survive in room temperature water. It is in plenty free flowing streams and non-hypolimnetic tailwaters. I think light is the biggest limiting issue. I did always enjoy bringing a piece of cobble or two into a tank and letting the darters mow it, but other than some thing bright green growths it always died back quickly. The Hiwassee (around RM 37) is a great spot for Potamogetons. I'd find them in slower riffle margins too, they just seem to grow a bit differently. Thicker stems, stay close to the substrate, really shallow waters.
#5
Guest_Newt_*
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 11:51 AM
Thanks again, Matt. I'm working on some botany projects in the Obed and Ocoee gorges this fall so I'll be in easy driving distance of the spots you mentioned. I also know some spots in the Duck with big stands of Potomageton; I don't know which species they are, but no threatened or special concern Potamogeton are known in that part of the state so I should be OK.
The hard part now will be saving enough money to set this up! I think it'll run about $500-600 altogether with powerheads, light fixture, lamps, and a home-built tank.
The hard part now will be saving enough money to set this up! I think it'll run about $500-600 altogether with powerheads, light fixture, lamps, and a home-built tank.
#6
Guest_Drew_*
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 11:57 AM
Nathan,
My Vallisneria americana does really well with my high wattage CFL fixtures I got from the local hydroponic store. I think the lowest one is 125 watts nowadays. I have a couple of them over my 180g tank and will probably pick up another real soon. They are a little pricey but cheaper and cooler than metal halide.
My Vallisneria americana does really well with my high wattage CFL fixtures I got from the local hydroponic store. I think the lowest one is 125 watts nowadays. I have a couple of them over my 180g tank and will probably pick up another real soon. They are a little pricey but cheaper and cooler than metal halide.
#7
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:07 PM
Thanks Drew! Do you happen to know the model of your fixtures?
I've been looking at some T5HO shoplight fixtures online that seem like they would do the trick and are relatively cheap. I may have to modify them a bit to moisture-proof the contacts, and add some fans to the canopy, but that's still way cheaper than comparable aquarium fixtures.
I've been looking at some T5HO shoplight fixtures online that seem like they would do the trick and are relatively cheap. I may have to modify them a bit to moisture-proof the contacts, and add some fans to the canopy, but that's still way cheaper than comparable aquarium fixtures.
#8
Guest_Drew_*
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#10
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 04:47 PM
Newt - Is this what you're talking about? http://goodlightsche....aspx?itemid=18
I had no clue there were T5 High Output shoplights until I saw your post and googled it.
I see riverweed growing in still water sometimes, but only at sites fairly close to patches growing in riffles, so I guess it relies on frequent recolonization from the riffles and can't persist long-term in still water (in the wild).
I had no clue there were T5 High Output shoplights until I saw your post and googled it.
I see riverweed growing in still water sometimes, but only at sites fairly close to patches growing in riffles, so I guess it relies on frequent recolonization from the riffles and can't persist long-term in still water (in the wild).
Thanks Drew! Do you happen to know the model of your fixtures?
I've been looking at some T5HO shoplight fixtures online that seem like they would do the trick and are relatively cheap. I may have to modify them a bit to moisture-proof the contacts, and add some fans to the canopy, but that's still way cheaper than comparable aquarium fixtures.
#11
Guest_Newt_*
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 07:20 PM
Yeah, that's more or less like the one I was looking at. I was thinking of doubling up this one: http://www.prolighti...o2t5inst12.html, which would work well for the unusual shape of this tank (details later).
I've seen Podostemum in sluggish water too, but usually in areas that probably do get significant flow for much of the year. Maybe it manages to persist through the slack summer months and resume growth when the rains pick up in the fall.
I've seen Podostemum in sluggish water too, but usually in areas that probably do get significant flow for much of the year. Maybe it manages to persist through the slack summer months and resume growth when the rains pick up in the fall.
#12
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 03 September 2010 - 12:11 PM
If you can get it to survive, I will be fantastically impressed. I have given up. But heck, give it a go.
Some people overdrive fluorescent light fixtures to get more light. This can be done if with electronic ballasts (as opposed to magnetic ones). I have done it; it does work to provide not quite twice the light out of the same bulb. Great if you have limited space to cram in bulbs. It isn't very hard to do; however, I make no guarantee that you won't burn your house down. If you feel squeamish about electricity, do not try it. I won't post instructions, but there are many available online if you search.
I have not tried to overdrive HO bulbs. Now that would be something!
Some people overdrive fluorescent light fixtures to get more light. This can be done if with electronic ballasts (as opposed to magnetic ones). I have done it; it does work to provide not quite twice the light out of the same bulb. Great if you have limited space to cram in bulbs. It isn't very hard to do; however, I make no guarantee that you won't burn your house down. If you feel squeamish about electricity, do not try it. I won't post instructions, but there are many available online if you search.
I have not tried to overdrive HO bulbs. Now that would be something!
#13
Guest_Newt_*
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Posted 05 September 2010 - 08:55 PM
Thanks Laura. I am definitely not an electrician, so no overdriving for me!
#14
Guest_Newt_*
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Posted 12 September 2010 - 07:17 PM
Holy moly, I actually found an aquarium fixture cheaper than the equivalent shoplight: http://shop.aquatrad...re-p/52103.htm. Anyone have experience with Odyssea fixtures? I've never even heard of them.
#15
Guest_Drew_*
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Posted 12 September 2010 - 07:49 PM
I was steered away from them when I found out they spontaneously combust into flames. A reputable company that sells lights once told me that and there are reports online as well. I was told that the parts are cheap and inconsistent and aren't truly rated for what they are advertised for.
#16
Guest_Newt_*
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Posted 13 September 2010 - 11:27 AM
That explains the low price, then. Thanks, Drew!
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