Well, I'm probobly gonna get a 30 or for gal and really want to put in rainbow shiners, stickle back,mudminnows, and dollar sunfish any objections? (I live in California, so I'm gonna order)
What to put in a 30-40 gal tank.
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, Sep 15 2010 05:48 PM
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#2
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Posted 15 September 2010 - 06:41 PM
That's an odd assemblage. You're going to have some compatability issues.
Rainbow Shiners are pretty flexible and get along with most any "community" fishes. They're a fish of cool, clear streams but can probably do all right in a planted tank if there is plenty of aeration. The other three species prefer still water with lots of cover.
Sticklebacks are dedicated fin-nippers and are not compatible with much at all.
Mudminnows are compatible with anything they can't eat, but like a very well-vegetated tank with very little current, and are not aggressive competitors, so may need some extra attention at feeding time.
Dollar sunfish are aggressive and territorial. They can be kept with smaller fishes, but you may have a few casualties from time to time, especially if inadequate cover is available.
I suggest you pick a must-have fish or a habitat type and build your tank around that. For example, if you "must have" rainbow shiners, you could select a large variety of other small shiners, dace, darters, madtoms, and topminnows that would do well with them. Mudminnows could do well with slackwater topminnows and mid-sized minnows. Dollar sunfish are best kept with tough, hardy fish such as other sunnies and large shiners.
Rainbow Shiners are pretty flexible and get along with most any "community" fishes. They're a fish of cool, clear streams but can probably do all right in a planted tank if there is plenty of aeration. The other three species prefer still water with lots of cover.
Sticklebacks are dedicated fin-nippers and are not compatible with much at all.
Mudminnows are compatible with anything they can't eat, but like a very well-vegetated tank with very little current, and are not aggressive competitors, so may need some extra attention at feeding time.
Dollar sunfish are aggressive and territorial. They can be kept with smaller fishes, but you may have a few casualties from time to time, especially if inadequate cover is available.
I suggest you pick a must-have fish or a habitat type and build your tank around that. For example, if you "must have" rainbow shiners, you could select a large variety of other small shiners, dace, darters, madtoms, and topminnows that would do well with them. Mudminnows could do well with slackwater topminnows and mid-sized minnows. Dollar sunfish are best kept with tough, hardy fish such as other sunnies and large shiners.
#4
Guest_bumpylemon_*
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Posted 15 September 2010 - 08:48 PM
okay so I was thinking bluenose shiner, rainbow shiner, redfin shiners, maybe stickleback, and blue spotted sunfish. would that work?
do not even think sticklebacks. throw that idea out. they are the most aggressive fresh water little fish i have ever kept. they are devils...literally. blue spotts will work with those other shiners. work as in they will live...but again bluespotted sunfish like weeds....and no current while shiners like current.
#5
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Posted 15 September 2010 - 09:19 PM
You're still thinking about species from very different environments. The redfins and rainbows would work together, and the bluenoses and blue spotteds would probably work. Like others have said, stay away from the sticklebacks unless you want the tension from constantly aggressive fish.
#6
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 15 September 2010 - 10:24 PM
I have a general rule of thumb WRT these things. Just throw a bunch of fish in together, and whoever lives, lives. 
FWIW, I would NOT attempt bluenose shiners for several reasons. I'm just gonna leave it at that.
FWIW, I would NOT attempt bluenose shiners for several reasons. I'm just gonna leave it at that.
#9
Guest_Elijah_*
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 12:35 AM
Do you have any sort of guide?
I think this would be most helpful to you now. Then you could find the fish you want to build your set up around and easily see what other fish come form that environment that interest you and ...
If you would like Rainbow shiners (I hear they are gorgeous!) maybe something like a few stream dwelling Darters (Rainbow Darters are awesome! Most Darters are awesome) and an Orange Spotted Sunfish.
Zimmerman's has O-spot Sunfish and Rainbow Darters and very reasonable prices. O-spot sunfish get very colorful when they mature.
Darters are similar, but way more fun that Sculpins in my book.
With Darters you just need to make sure you have good flow My filter got clogged (a while ago) while I was away, and I came home to all the darters in that tank dead. I make sure to clean the intakes any time I am gone for a few days now.
If you want a heavily planted swampy kind of tank, maybe go with the Blue Spotted Sunfish and/or Black Banded Sunfish, some Swamp Darters (do not need the water flow),and some Fundulus (topminnows).
Personally I am not all that psyched with my Madtoms as I only ever see them when I peer in to the tank at night with a flashlight.
Have fun with it!
I think this would be most helpful to you now. Then you could find the fish you want to build your set up around and easily see what other fish come form that environment that interest you and ...
If you would like Rainbow shiners (I hear they are gorgeous!) maybe something like a few stream dwelling Darters (Rainbow Darters are awesome! Most Darters are awesome) and an Orange Spotted Sunfish.
Zimmerman's has O-spot Sunfish and Rainbow Darters and very reasonable prices. O-spot sunfish get very colorful when they mature.
Darters are similar, but way more fun that Sculpins in my book.
With Darters you just need to make sure you have good flow My filter got clogged (a while ago) while I was away, and I came home to all the darters in that tank dead. I make sure to clean the intakes any time I am gone for a few days now.
If you want a heavily planted swampy kind of tank, maybe go with the Blue Spotted Sunfish and/or Black Banded Sunfish, some Swamp Darters (do not need the water flow),and some Fundulus (topminnows).
Personally I am not all that psyched with my Madtoms as I only ever see them when I peer in to the tank at night with a flashlight.
Have fun with it!
#10
Guest_FirstChAoS_*
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 12:41 AM
I don't think you will have to worry about that. But anyway, no darters for sure with a sculpin.
I heard alot of sculpins eating every other fish that can fit into their massive mouths. but I kept sculpin with similar sized darters for half a year with no issues, only the summer heat killing the sculpin changed that.
#12
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 10:37 AM
Sculpin are not a fish for beginners. But, if you decide to keep them, you can keep them with fish too big to be eaten, such as large minnows and darters.
Elijah- why pirate perch? They have very different environmental needs from sculpin (warm weedy swamps vs. cool oxygenated streams).
Elijah- why pirate perch? They have very different environmental needs from sculpin (warm weedy swamps vs. cool oxygenated streams).
#14
Guest_bumpylemon_*
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 07:08 PM
a mudminnow is not a "minnow" like you are thinking...a large minnow....fallfish or golden shiner. 
i think you really need to research some yourself instead of just going down the line of fish. id say get some bluespotted sunfish and some banded sunfish and let it rock. you will prob end up like most of us and have lots of tanks. so now you can look to the future
i think you really need to research some yourself instead of just going down the line of fish. id say get some bluespotted sunfish and some banded sunfish and let it rock. you will prob end up like most of us and have lots of tanks. so now you can look to the future
#16
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 08:42 PM
Have you read Gerald's Native Fish Keeping 101? Pages 9-10 will answer your general questions. It doesn't address sticklebacks but they should be under the "do not keep" category.
You may want to look at getting a copy of Goldstein's American Aquarium Fishes. It is a good book for a beginner NA native fishkeeper.
You may want to look at getting a copy of Goldstein's American Aquarium Fishes. It is a good book for a beginner NA native fishkeeper.
#17
Guest_Elijah_*
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 08:56 PM
Elijah- why pirate perch? They have very different environmental needs from sculpin (warm weedy swamps vs. cool oxygenated streams).
[/quote
My bad, I made a mistake, Trout Perch is what I meant. I guess that would depend on the type of sculpin too.
[/quote
My bad, I made a mistake, Trout Perch is what I meant. I guess that would depend on the type of sculpin too.
Edited by Elijah, 16 September 2010 - 08:59 PM.
#18
Guest_FirstChAoS_*
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Posted 17 September 2010 - 01:22 AM
do not even think sticklebacks. throw that idea out. they are the most aggressive fresh water little fish i have ever kept. they are devils...literally.
How would banded killifish do with sticklebacks? bandeds can be quite the devils themselves, nipping fins of other fish and killing and eating fish smaller than them that are too big to eat. In my experience only bottom dwellers have a chance with them, and then only if they hide alot and avoid panicing.
#19
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Posted 18 September 2010 - 12:41 AM
Well, I do have to say, I had a stickleback in two of my tanks. A F. chrysotus hassled my best one (he was quite beautiful for a brook stickleback) to death and the other one is in a tank with a school of red bellied dace, a few tesselated darters, and a white sucker. I have not had any problems with the sticklebacks nipping fins. In the past I did have sticklebacks that did some real damage to other fish though.
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