Anyone know of an anchor worm treatment that won't harm my snails, crayfish, and madtom? One of my pickerel seems to have managed to get 2 of them somehow...probably feeders.
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, Sep 01 2010 08:13 PM
19 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 09:57 PM
The pickerel was probably already infected, but was not yet showing clinical signs. Dimilin will kill them, but is serious stuff. In my opinion, you should net your fish, and pluck them out. They are tough to pull, called anchor worms for a reason. Good luck!
#3
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:24 AM
I've had two pickerel for maybe like a month (thanks Nate Tessler) They were about 3 and 3.25" when I got them I think. Now they're growing like weeds and eating like pigs, closer to 4 and 4.25". Anyhow I've noticed over time that they'll sit still enough to collect sand and other debris on their backs, so when I saw a little piece of something on the back/side of his head I wasn't worried. Few days and its still there so I start wondering what it could possibly be, thinking maybe its just something stuck pretty good somehow...who knows I'm fairly new at this. Then he starts showing small signs of stress, not eating as heavily (as in getting skinnier than normal before deciding to eat again), and swimming around nervously some of the time. Almost looked like he was chasing his reflection around. So I start looking around on the internet for external parasites thinking maybe that thing on his head is actually something? Within a few minutes I'm almost certain its an anchor worm. So I read a little bit about the treatments, see that some people just pluck them with tweezers and I say hey..can't be too hard, but I really didn't wanna stress the fish anymore than he seemed to be already. Either way I gave in and netted him as quickly as possible (he's a lot faster than I thought he could be) and placed him in a 3 gallon bucket I had filled and treated last night planning a water change. What I didn't think about is that the bucket was probably about 78 degrees and my tank is generally 71-72 because of the desk fan I have upside down on the hook blowing into the tank. Anyway I plucked the anchor worm with tweezers, discovered another at the base of his anal fin, and plucked that one also. I took a couple minutes in between because I didn't want him out of the water very long. When I put him back in his tank (didn't acclimate again) He went to the bottom gasping and kinda rolled on his side for like 2 seconds, I was flipping out of course. Nine hours later he seems a lot less stressed and is relaxing a lot more like normal, has swiped at a shiner, might have eaten some small ones, he looks possibly a little fatter. I think he should be ok.
My concern is that there are more anchor worms that haven't shown up yet, either on another fish or on him. I wanted to treat the tank with something but I can't seem to find anything that wouldn't kill crayfish (I have 3 tiny ones that have survived the entire time with the Pickerel). I Also have a full grown male rainbow darter and 2 or 3 random tiny darters for eventual feeders if the pickerel can ever catch them. Lastly I have a brindled madtom, will salt hurt the madtom? My thinking is that salt is not good with scaleless fish. Sorry for the super long post, any help would be appreciated greatly!
Nate
My concern is that there are more anchor worms that haven't shown up yet, either on another fish or on him. I wanted to treat the tank with something but I can't seem to find anything that wouldn't kill crayfish (I have 3 tiny ones that have survived the entire time with the Pickerel). I Also have a full grown male rainbow darter and 2 or 3 random tiny darters for eventual feeders if the pickerel can ever catch them. Lastly I have a brindled madtom, will salt hurt the madtom? My thinking is that salt is not good with scaleless fish. Sorry for the super long post, any help would be appreciated greatly!
Nate
#4
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:56 AM
You might very well have more anchor worm waiting but as long as you find them quickly enough (read - pluck females before they produce eggs) you can do stuff to manage them.
If you want them dead, I would suggest what Matt suggested - Dimilin. Really great stuff, if you follow the directions precisely. A very effective short term management plan is salt! Salt at about 2 T per 5G actually seems to suppress them but they may pop up again if you stop adding salt at water changes. If you do use salt to manage them short term, start small and work your way up to 2T per 5G slowly.
I might suggest you remove the pickerel and treat them with Dimilin in a hospital tank but if you missed any female Lernea, you could have many eggs waiting for the pickerel once it returns. Looks like you'll have to remove the stuff you're concerned the Dimilin will harm and treat the main tank. If you don't already have a quarantine tank, now is a good time to set one up since they double nicely as a hospital tank. I'd also make sure to look very closely at fish before you collect them and always QT new fish even if for observation alone.
If you want them dead, I would suggest what Matt suggested - Dimilin. Really great stuff, if you follow the directions precisely. A very effective short term management plan is salt! Salt at about 2 T per 5G actually seems to suppress them but they may pop up again if you stop adding salt at water changes. If you do use salt to manage them short term, start small and work your way up to 2T per 5G slowly.
I might suggest you remove the pickerel and treat them with Dimilin in a hospital tank but if you missed any female Lernea, you could have many eggs waiting for the pickerel once it returns. Looks like you'll have to remove the stuff you're concerned the Dimilin will harm and treat the main tank. If you don't already have a quarantine tank, now is a good time to set one up since they double nicely as a hospital tank. I'd also make sure to look very closely at fish before you collect them and always QT new fish even if for observation alone.
#5
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 08:56 AM
I have had multiple bouts of anchor worm infection. Dimilin has proven reliable so long as instructed followed. Salt for me when bluegill are infected does not work reliably. Tried baths and dips. Suspect not all anchoworm stocks are equally vulnerable to salt. Hand picking will require multiple efforts and it is easy to miss one.
As for quarantine, I would even do same for feeder fish. Would be a good time to fatten them up before feeding to your predator.
As for quarantine, I would even do same for feeder fish. Would be a good time to fatten them up before feeding to your predator.
#6
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 10:09 AM
To kill anchor worms with salt you need 10 grams per liter for 10 or so days. For Australian freshwater fishes this is no issue, not sure with NA species though.
I use anchors away which works good, it's probably pretty nasty though.
You should be able to treat the fish in question in another aquarium. It's probably not necessary to have to treat the tank they were in (but you might research that a little further).
Cheers
Peter
I use anchors away which works good, it's probably pretty nasty though.
You should be able to treat the fish in question in another aquarium. It's probably not necessary to have to treat the tank they were in (but you might research that a little further).
Cheers
Peter
#7
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 10:55 AM
To kill anchor worms with salt you need 10 grams per liter for 10 or so days. For Australian freshwater fishes this is no issue, not sure with NA species though.
I use anchors away which works good, it's probably pretty nasty though.
You should be able to treat the fish in question in another aquarium. It's probably not necessary to have to treat the tank they were in (but you might research that a little further).
Cheers
Peter
Anchors away may have same active ingredient as Dimilin, so care must be taken for not target organisms (non-vertebrates).
The eggs and free living live stages can last a number of days without a host. Duration a function of temperature. Make certain alternative host, i.e. another fish, not in tank where infect exists now.
#8
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:26 PM
Anyone know of an anchor worm treatment that won't harm my snails, crayfish, and madtom? One of my pickerel seems to have managed to get 2 of them somehow...probably feeders.
The crayfish would be trouble. I cured a rock bass of anchor worm with a simple generic parasite medicine, but that medicine had a warning on the back that it is harmful to shrimp and other crustaceans.
#9
littlen
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:41 PM
Star,
I am (hopefully) at the end of a battle with anchor worms myself. I have two 5-6" Muskie that have/had anchor worms. Like others have said, plucking them off is the quickest and easiest way. But you usually don't notice the anchor worm until it has eggs. (They look like a "Y" with each arm of the y being eggs). I managed to kill the attached worms with a 50ppm Formalin bath for an hour and the worm fell off within a day or so. This apparently didn't end the problem. Within a week I saw a couple more attached to the Muskie. I assume that it wasn't a high enough concentration to kill the eggs. My next attemp was a 25ppm Formalin bath for 24 hours. After the bath, the tank was kept at 5ppt salt. This seemed to do the trick....so I thought. Again, as others said, once the salt treatment was over the worms would return.
This last round I 'nuked' the tank (so to speak) with 125ppm Formalin bath for over an hour while the Muskie were pulled out and given a ~100 ppm bath for 45 minutes. Now I'm waiting to see if does the trick for adults, larva, and eggs alike. 24 hours later and both Muskie are already eating again. (Note: appropriate water changes were done to remove all traces of Formalin).
**I have to mention now that Formalin is nasty stuff and can do considerable damage to gill tissue. If you decide to use it please be very cautious. An anchor worm here and there won't kill your fish. But you easily can with too much formalin. Be sure to watch your fish very closely with any medication as some may be less tolerable than others.
Please keep us posted.
I am (hopefully) at the end of a battle with anchor worms myself. I have two 5-6" Muskie that have/had anchor worms. Like others have said, plucking them off is the quickest and easiest way. But you usually don't notice the anchor worm until it has eggs. (They look like a "Y" with each arm of the y being eggs). I managed to kill the attached worms with a 50ppm Formalin bath for an hour and the worm fell off within a day or so. This apparently didn't end the problem. Within a week I saw a couple more attached to the Muskie. I assume that it wasn't a high enough concentration to kill the eggs. My next attemp was a 25ppm Formalin bath for 24 hours. After the bath, the tank was kept at 5ppt salt. This seemed to do the trick....so I thought. Again, as others said, once the salt treatment was over the worms would return.
This last round I 'nuked' the tank (so to speak) with 125ppm Formalin bath for over an hour while the Muskie were pulled out and given a ~100 ppm bath for 45 minutes. Now I'm waiting to see if does the trick for adults, larva, and eggs alike. 24 hours later and both Muskie are already eating again. (Note: appropriate water changes were done to remove all traces of Formalin).
**I have to mention now that Formalin is nasty stuff and can do considerable damage to gill tissue. If you decide to use it please be very cautious. An anchor worm here and there won't kill your fish. But you easily can with too much formalin. Be sure to watch your fish very closely with any medication as some may be less tolerable than others.
Please keep us posted.
Nick L.
#10
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:54 PM
Formalin, salt and hand picking all require multiple treatments. Some life stages resistant or simply hard to detect because of size. Formalin does work but make certain it is labelled for fish and stable. Destabilized formlin is much more toxic to fish.
#11
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 01:31 PM
I really wasn't suggesting that salt would treat the fish, just suppress at those levels. Adult females would not reproduce in my tanks at those levels until I managed to treat with dimilin.
Centrarchid, did you find anchor worms could reproduce with a significant shot of salt?
Below is an adult female with eggs still intact. Once you see anchor worm with the egg sacks ruptured, you should assume they have spread to addition parts of the host fish and others in the tank. I suggest Dimilin since you need the medication long enough to break the cycle.
Centrarchid, did you find anchor worms could reproduce with a significant shot of salt?
Below is an adult female with eggs still intact. Once you see anchor worm with the egg sacks ruptured, you should assume they have spread to addition parts of the host fish and others in the tank. I suggest Dimilin since you need the medication long enough to break the cycle.
#13
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 04:40 PM
As of now the pickerel is still not eating normally/acting right. Sometimes he'll hover and act normal, but as I type this he's at the front of the tank just kinda looking nervous, swimming nervously here and there. He doesn't necessarily look skinny but he isn't chubby like the other one is and he usually is. What do you suggest I do next? The crayfish/snails would be super difficult to remove, but the last thing I want is a stressed/sick....dead pickerel.
#15
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 05:35 PM
As of now the pickerel is still not eating normally/acting right. Sometimes he'll hover and act normal, but as I type this he's at the front of the tank just kinda looking nervous, swimming nervously here and there. He doesn't necessarily look skinny but he isn't chubby like the other one is and he usually is. What do you suggest I do next? The crayfish/snails would be super difficult to remove, but the last thing I want is a stressed/sick....dead pickerel.
Star5328,
If concern about crayfish/snails great, then move pickeral to its own tank for quarantine. To speed eradication I would be prepared to pick off adult adult anchor worms with fine set of tweezers as described above AND treat with Dimilin or equavalent. I would inspect / pick 3 times at roughly 3 day intervals. Treatment duration will be about duration of recommended Dimilin treatment. Make certain you have good supplemental aeration and filtration capacity for quarantine. AND COVER TANK BEFORE YOU WALK AWAY! I'd imagine having nasty anchor worms in your hide is very unpleasant (itchy or sore) which is why you see the change in the pickeral's behavior. When my sunfishes are infected, especially when heavily, they often go off feed and almost always loose weight.
Anchor worm outbreaks happen enough that making a "how to treat" thread with lots of picture would be extremely helpful.
Uland, the anchor worm picture you posted is handily the best I have ever seen. Is it yours? When we salt treated the last couple times, a bath of 8 ppt (near upper tolerance limit for our bluegill) for 10 days failed to provide control. Previous efforts salt sometimes worked. I suspect our anchor worms are not all the same kind. Those from Savanah River seemed to taunt us when salt treatment attempted while our local Missouri version were more easily addressed.
#17
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:12 PM
Centrarchid, I discovered anchor worms in a tank, picked them off and then treated with salt. Unfortunately I did have adults with ruptured egg sacks. After salt treatment, I had no visible anchor worms for over 3 months. Once I reduced salt levels, most fish showed anchor worms very quickly. As I recall, wouldn't other life stages be expected to remain in the tank even with salt treatment? This was my experience and reference to suppression. I would not be surprised if some Learnea show resistance to salt (or other medication for that matter). Yes, that's my photo of a Lythrurus umbratilis with a rather healthy anchor worm attached.
So Star, while a quarantine is always a good idea, I would not recommend you remove the fish since you might very well have hundreds of critters in the main tank awaiting a host. Remove the crayfish and as many of the snails as possible and just treat the main tank. You can pick up Dimilin at most chain mega-pet stores in the pond section. Expect any snails that remain in the tank to die.
So Star, while a quarantine is always a good idea, I would not recommend you remove the fish since you might very well have hundreds of critters in the main tank awaiting a host. Remove the crayfish and as many of the snails as possible and just treat the main tank. You can pick up Dimilin at most chain mega-pet stores in the pond section. Expect any snails that remain in the tank to die.
#18
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:25 PM
I plucked 2 anchor worms off one of my pickerel maybe a month ago. I noticed them because he was acting strange compared to the other one I have. One seems to relax and hover most of the time, the one I plucked worms off of sometimes swims back and forth nervously, maybe darts a short distance for no reason. Also he was the bigger of the two when I got them, now it almost looks like he might be slightly smaller, or about the same size. What would make him act strange like that other than an internal parasite?
#19
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Posted 16 September 2010 - 02:29 PM
Just noticed something on my madtom also, two small white things growing out of him, just looks like a tiny white worm attached to his skin, no egg sacs, not stiff like an anchor worm, maybe 1/8" long. Are these anchor worms? Either way looks like i'm going to have to nuke my tank with dimilin or something of the sorts.
#20
littlen
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Posted 22 October 2010 - 10:15 AM
....annnd a restart to this topic....
Just an update with my progress/treatment, for what it's worth. Those of you not following this topic might want to scroll up to look for my last post to see my last attempt at getting rid of anchor worms on my Muskie...
I thought the formalin bath did the trick. It did not. They have been gone ever since but I noticed a few earlier this week. Tough S.O.B.s to get rid of for sure. So new game plan, same treatment. I pulled them out of their tank (200 gallons--tank + sump) into a small holding vessel where they were given another 100ppm formalin bath for 45 minutes. (After all the trial and error, I know that this kills any *attached* worms). The problem was that even though the last bath was run throughout the entire system, eggs and/or larva survived and eventually attached to the host. After the bath they were put into a new, established, holding tank. My logic is that now that the attached individuals are dead, there is nothing in the new tank to re-infect them. I might even perform this process again in 2 weeks just to be sure. I have plenty of empty, established holding tanks so nuking the previous one with bleach is not a set back.
Hopefully everyone else has had success with their chosen method(s).
Just an update with my progress/treatment, for what it's worth. Those of you not following this topic might want to scroll up to look for my last post to see my last attempt at getting rid of anchor worms on my Muskie...
I thought the formalin bath did the trick. It did not. They have been gone ever since but I noticed a few earlier this week. Tough S.O.B.s to get rid of for sure. So new game plan, same treatment. I pulled them out of their tank (200 gallons--tank + sump) into a small holding vessel where they were given another 100ppm formalin bath for 45 minutes. (After all the trial and error, I know that this kills any *attached* worms). The problem was that even though the last bath was run throughout the entire system, eggs and/or larva survived and eventually attached to the host. After the bath they were put into a new, established, holding tank. My logic is that now that the attached individuals are dead, there is nothing in the new tank to re-infect them. I might even perform this process again in 2 weeks just to be sure. I have plenty of empty, established holding tanks so nuking the previous one with bleach is not a set back.
Hopefully everyone else has had success with their chosen method(s).
Nick L.
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