Curious to see how many people have come across (in the wild or through captive breeding) color variations such as albanism, melanism, leucism, etc. I know this rarely occurs naturally, (although the herp industry thrives on it) but wanted to see what sorts of our native fish are found with genetic pigment abnormalities. Pictures aren't necessary although welcome if you happen to have any.
Thanks.
Frequency of genetic color variations
Started by
littlen
, Sep 27 2010 09:21 AM
12 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_centrarchid_*
Guest_centrarchid_*
-
- Guests
Posted 27 September 2010 - 10:04 AM
Curious to see how many people have come across (in the wild or through captive breeding) color variations such as albanism, melanism, leucism, etc. I know this rarely occurs naturally, (although the herp industry thrives on it) but wanted to see what sorts of our native fish are found with genetic pigment abnormalities. Pictures aren't necessary although welcome if you happen to have any.
Thanks.
My bluegill have throw a couple different variants that are genetic.
1) Blue with wide irregular scales. Recessive. Bad
2) Gold patches on head and body. Low frequency / inheritance unknown. Neutral
3) Bent-tail, always seen with Manatee Coppernose crossed with any northern population. Incomplete dominance. Bad
4) Hand paint. Recessive and fixed for all in population. When out crossed paint marks not apparent. Neutral
Bad means associated with poor production / dressout quality. Neutral means no affect on production / dressout. I suspect albanism will not persist in bluegill as it hinders sight feeding of larvae. If I can remember, photographs of bent tail could be made come November.
Edited by centrarchid, 27 September 2010 - 10:04 AM.
#4
Guest_FirstChAoS_*
Guest_FirstChAoS_*
-
- Guests
Posted 27 September 2010 - 11:14 AM
Interesting. I have yet to catch a fish with a mutation that effects coloration or markings but find it fascinating.
I also wonder about regional color variations. Such as why redbreasts caught here are all greenish while the ones bumpy caught in mass were blue, and the ones on one online store (maybe zimmermans) looked whitish.
I almost wonder if the fact that sunfish are prone to hybridize and produce fertile offspring leads to newly established populations borrowing traits from other species until they become widespread enough to mainly find their own.
Say the first ones may hybridize as well as find their own species, and when they become established enough to only find their own species they keep some hybrid traits.
I also wonder about regional color variations. Such as why redbreasts caught here are all greenish while the ones bumpy caught in mass were blue, and the ones on one online store (maybe zimmermans) looked whitish.
I almost wonder if the fact that sunfish are prone to hybridize and produce fertile offspring leads to newly established populations borrowing traits from other species until they become widespread enough to mainly find their own.
Say the first ones may hybridize as well as find their own species, and when they become established enough to only find their own species they keep some hybrid traits.
Edited by FirstChAoS, 27 September 2010 - 11:16 AM.
#5
Guest_centrarchid_*
Guest_centrarchid_*
-
- Guests
Posted 27 September 2010 - 11:54 AM
"3) Bent-tail, always seen with Manatee Coppernose crossed with any northern population. Incomplete dominance. Bad"
Wow, is that from genetic variance; and does that happen in any other hybrids?
I suspect a couple regulatory genes of the Manatee coppernose conflicts with a couple regulatory genes of northern bluegill. The bent tail is exhibited 100% of time with F1 hybrids. I have seen this with multiple matings with many hundreds of fish reared to market (food)size. Direction of cross does not matter. Some fish being reared in ponds now are offspring of F1's with bent-tail. Not all show characteristic. We allowed to bent-tail fish to continue as broodstock because they grow very well which hopefully is a characterisctic than can be retained while the bent-tail which hurts dressout can be culled out over time.
#6
Guest_centrarchid_*
Guest_centrarchid_*
-
- Guests
Posted 27 September 2010 - 12:02 PM
FirstChAoS,
I am certain interspecies hybridzation within sunfishes does play a role in generating some novel forms that are persistant. It is likely to be quite rare in human life time for such hybridization events to lead to such gene exchanges. If you look hard, it is likley to be difficult to find a taxon that does not show evidence of such introgression of genes from another "species", it simply the events do not occur every day, certainly not at the frequency of hybridization that occurs now. As I speak straddling a barbwire fence.
I am certain interspecies hybridzation within sunfishes does play a role in generating some novel forms that are persistant. It is likely to be quite rare in human life time for such hybridization events to lead to such gene exchanges. If you look hard, it is likley to be difficult to find a taxon that does not show evidence of such introgression of genes from another "species", it simply the events do not occur every day, certainly not at the frequency of hybridization that occurs now. As I speak straddling a barbwire fence.
#7
Guest_CATfishTONY_*
Guest_CATfishTONY_*
-
- Guests
Posted 27 September 2010 - 12:14 PM
Curious to see how many people have come across (in the wild or through captive breeding) color variations such as albanism, melanism, leucism, etc. I know this rarely occurs naturally, (although the herp industry thrives on it) but wanted to see what sorts of our native fish are found with genetic pigment abnormalities. Pictures aren't necessary although welcome if you happen to have any.
Thanks.
IN my area i have found a gravel pit that has bluegills that are a vivid blue color pattern very odd.
and this past spring my sons girlfriend caught a yellow channel catfish this pond also produced black and white colored channel catfish they had black upper body, and white as bone on the belly side.these are very odd in my area.i only have a pic of the yellow one.
Attached Images
#8
littlen
-
- NANFA Member
- Washington, D.C.
Posted 27 September 2010 - 02:36 PM
IN my area i have found a gravel pit that has bluegills that are a vivid blue color pattern very odd.
and this past spring my sons girlfriend caught a yellow channel catfish this pond also produced black and white colored channel catfish they had black upper body, and white as bone on the belly side.these are very odd in my area.i only have a pic of the yellow one.
Tony,
Channels are typically dark on the dorsom with stark white bellies. Now you may have seen/experienced something unique among this species. Also, albinos such as the one pictured are quite common in the pet industry. What you may have experienced is someones unwanted pet after it grew too large.
All,
Other than sunfish and cats, has this been seen in smaller stream fish families such as Cyprinidae or Percidae? (Similar to how the Rosy red was produced?)
Nick L.
#9
Guest_CATfishTONY_*
Guest_CATfishTONY_*
-
- Guests
Posted 27 September 2010 - 05:51 PM
Tony,
Channels are typically dark on the dorsom with stark white bellies. Now you may have seen/experienced something unique among this species. Also, albinos such as the one pictured are quite common in the pet industry. What you may have experienced is someones unwanted pet after it grew too large.
All,
Other than sunfish and cats, has this been seen in smaller stream fish families such as Cyprinidae or Percidae? (Similar to how the Rosy red was produced?)
last year we found a blue colored rusty crawdad from a local river.
#11
Guest_haruspicator_*
Guest_haruspicator_*
-
- Guests
Posted 13 October 2010 - 04:50 PM
I've found leucistic Crenichthys and Empetrichthys, guessing (prob way off) about one in about five thousand have a color variation. Some pure orange Crenichthys and some completely white (except for normal colored eyes). Never seen a melanistic or albino. I have pics somewhere...
#12
Guest_mikez_*
Guest_mikez_*
-
- Guests
Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:15 PM
Curious to see how many people have come across (in the wild or through captive breeding) color variations such as albanism, melanism, leucism, etc. I know this rarely occurs naturally, (although the herp industry thrives on it) but wanted to see what sorts of our native fish are found with genetic pigment abnormalities. Pictures aren't necessary although welcome if you happen to have any.
Thanks.
Melanism occurs quite frequently across a wide range of fish and animals. Mollies and mosquitoes come to mind.
For at least 50 years, the south side of the town I grew up in has consistently produced black [grey] squirrels. The black ones come mixed in broods of normal. The same population also produces tail-less squirrels mixed in the same broods as black and normal. I never saw or heard of a tail-less one living to adulthood but the black ones grow big and glossy. They also seem to be spreading. Just last week I saw two in one day, at least five or six miles from the bulk of the population as I remembered it.
#13
Guest_FishheadDave_*
Guest_FishheadDave_*
-
- Guests
Posted 14 October 2010 - 07:43 AM
While it didn't occur in the wild, WV produced palomino/golden rainbow trout in hatchery in the 1950's. Based on that happy accident (from what I understand), these fish are now widely stocked. This is an example of a genetic color mutation that many of us may have seen.
Reply to this topic
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
NANFA Youtube Channel 
