Snail Care

I've read through some old post and through info on other websites, but I'm just curious if there are some things that snails do/don't like. I realize that my mass collection of darter probably kill some, but I feel like my snails just don't last.

For example, I collect 20+ snail a couple weeks ago. I left them in the bucket for several days. I saw them creeping around the sides and up to the waters surface and on the bottom, they seemed fine. I put them in the tank and only see a few moving on the sides, rocks, etc. Are my darters eating more than I think? I notice that most of the snails I find are in shallow water. Could the depth/pressure in my tank make a difference? How can you tell if a snail gets the air from the water or from the surface?

As a general rule- snails with opercula ("trap doors") are gilled, obligate water breathers. Snails without them are usually lunged, air breathers. Either way, the depth shouldn't be an issue. Gilled snails can be picky about DO, but that shouldn't be an issue in a darter tank. Likely many of them are down in the substrate or have gotten into the filter. Darters will eat snails, but usually leave an intact shell behind unless the snail is tiny.

Post pics of your snails if you can. It should be easy to ID them to family, at least.

This is the most hilarious problem I have ever heard. Can I send you some of my snails? Seriously.

Okay, I'll explain a bit about snails. Stuff that kills invertebrates kills them, for example dissolved metal ions (CopperSafe® by Mardel, for example) and general invertebrate killing chemicals (the farm-animal grade dewormer levamisole HCl comes to mind). And there are different kinds of snails that have different needs. For example, the ramshorn snails that I have (picture: http://img.photobuck...imiru/029-2.jpg ) are unable to survive in low oxygen situations. If you overcrowd them, they can die. As opposed to my Physa fontinalis snails (picture: http://img.photobuck...iru/031-1-1.jpg ) which are able to survive in even extremely low oxygen concentration water because they have an air bladder. But if you give both snails good water quality, the ramshorn snail pulls ahead. Physa has the advantage in low oxygen or water quality scenarios, but ramshorn has the advantage in fairly decent quality water with good oxygen content. Of course, Physa can survive being frozen for a few days...

If your snails aren't reproducing, that could be why you're not seeing them. Physa and ramshorn both reproduce readily in the aquarium, laying egg sacks containing a dozen or so offspring. Assassin snails (Picture, not of one of mine this time: http://www.grandaqua...ish/GA-2719.jpg ) are actually heterosexual. Anentome helena (assassin snails) have to actually find a partner and reproduce, and they do so in single egg sacks, which is a really slow way to reproduce for a snail. The apple snails you see sold as mystery snails in pet stores reproduce in large strawberry red egg clutches, which they lay right above the surface of the water. Apple snails can't reproduce if there's not empty glass space at the top of the tank above the water surface. There are certain species of saltwater snails that can survive in freshwater but not breed (for example, Nerite snails). Oh, and there are livebearing snails. I think they're native to North America, since they're always in that section of aquabid.

Paleomonetes shrimp eat baby Physa, ripping them out of their shells with their pincers.
Or if you have loaches or puffers they'll just eat up all the snails in the tank. Or so I've heard.

Aaanyway. Snails... Yeah. Give 'em something to eat, and they'll breed. And you'll have lots. Surprisingly, they don't eat fresh plants. (except apple snails, those evil things. One took a big chomp out of my prize aponogeton one time). Anyway, most snails like decaying food. For example, decaying plant, vegetable, or fish. *nods*

Edit:
Darters do indeed leave the shell intact. You'll find dozens of empty shells if your darters are eating them. My darters picked at the snails but came nowhere near to consuming the entire population. It was sustainable.
And some snails do bury themselves. For example, Anentome helena is nocturnal and hides under the substrate during the day.
Malaysian trumpet snails also dig; they're famous for that in the planting community because people like to think it's good for the soil, airates it like.

Edit #2: I agree that a picture of your snails would be nice.

Edit #3: And I would like to know exactly what fish are in that tank, that are capable of wiping out a snail population. You have no idea how many people hate snails and can't get rid of them.

Edited by EricaWieser, 02 November 2010 - 10:02 PM.

jblaylock, I feel your pain. Before I added fish to my tank I had 100's of snails of multiple species, most breeding like crazy. Once the fish went in I now only find snails near the surface of the background or on the tops of the plants that are floating. I am thinking of setting up a tank just to breed snails to add to my main tank.

As a general rule- snails with opercula ("trap doors") are gilled, obligate water breathers. Snails without them are usually lunged, air breathers. Either way, the depth shouldn't be an issue. Gilled snails can be picky about DO, but that shouldn't be an issue in a darter tank. Likely many of them are down in the substrate or have gotten into the filter. Darters will eat snails, but usually leave an intact shell behind unless the snail is tiny.

Post pics of your snails if you can. It should be easy to ID them to family, at least.

What is this 'trap door'? I should have high DO as I run an air pump through my powerheads all day, they spit out a lot of air. I have seen darters eat snails a couple times, but that's it. But I don't sit and stare at my tank all day long. I doubt any snails are in the filters as I have 2 cannisters and I doubt they could get into the intakes. I do have a large darter population, may they are just eating all of them.

This is the most hilarious problem I have ever heard. Can I send you some of my snails? Seriously.

Okay, I'll explain a bit about snails. Stuff that kills invertebrates kills them, for example dissolved metal ions (CopperSafe® by Mardel, for example) and general invertebrate killing chemicals (the farm-animal grade dewormer levamisole HCl comes to mind). And there are different kinds of snails that have different needs. For example, the ramshorn snails that I have (picture: http://img.photobuck...imiru/029-2.jpg ) are unable to survive in low oxygen situations. If you overcrowd them, they can die. As opposed to my Physa fontinalis snails (picture: http://img.photobuck...iru/031-1-1.jpg ) which are able to survive in even extremely low oxygen concentration water because they have an air bladder. But if you give both snails good water quality, the ramshorn snail pulls ahead. Physa has the advantage in low oxygen or water quality scenarios, but ramshorn has the advantage in fairly decent quality water with good oxygen content. Of course, Physa can survive being frozen for a few days...

If your snails aren't reproducing, that could be why you're not seeing them. Physa and ramshorn both reproduce readily in the aquarium, laying egg sacks containing a dozen or so offspring. Assassin snails (Picture, not of one of mine this time: http://www.grandaqua...ish/GA-2719.jpg ) are actually heterosexual. Anentome helena (assassin snails) have to actually find a partner and reproduce, and they do so in single egg sacks, which is a really slow way to reproduce for a snail. The apple snails you see sold as mystery snails in pet stores reproduce in large strawberry red egg clutches, which they lay right above the surface of the water. Apple snails can't reproduce if there's not empty glass space at the top of the tank above the water surface. There are certain species of saltwater snails that can survive in freshwater but not breed (for example, Nerite snails). Oh, and there are livebearing snails. I think they're native to North America, since they're always in that section of aquabid.

Paleomonetes shrimp eat baby Physa, ripping them out of their shells with their pincers.
Or if you have loaches or puffers they'll just eat up all the snails in the tank. Or so I've heard.

Aaanyway. Snails... Yeah. Give 'em something to eat, and they'll breed. And you'll have lots. Surprisingly, they don't eat fresh plants. (except apple snails, those evil things. One took a big chomp out of my prize aponogeton one time). Anyway, most snails like decaying food. For example, decaying plant, vegetable, or fish. *nods*

Edit:
Darters do indeed leave the shell intact. You'll find dozens of empty shells if your darters are eating them. My darters picked at the snails but came nowhere near to consuming the entire population. It was sustainable.
And some snails do bury themselves. For example, Anentome helena is nocturnal and hides under the substrate during the day.
Malaysian trumpet snails also dig; they're famous for that in the planting community because people like to think it's good for the soil, airates it like.

Edit #2: I agree that a picture of your snails would be nice.

Edit #3: And I would like to know exactly what fish are in that tank, that are capable of wiping out a snail population. You have no idea how many people hate snails and can't get rid of them.

Erica, thanks for your responce. I don't think it's that funny of a problem, though I understand a lot of people hate snails. I'm just trying to replicate my fishes' natural surroundings as much as possible, and snails are a part of that. I have to wonder if there is a difference between aquarium trade snails that obviously are sold because they do well in aquariums and natural snails found in the US, maybe-maybe not. There should be plenty of things for the snails to eat in the tank. I don't think any snail populations last long enough to reproduce in my tank.

I do see shells laying around in the tank, but they don't look empty to me. They look like the snail is still in it and just laying there. But, I'm no expert. The best I've done with snails was some really black colored snails from the Rockcastle River in KY, darters didn't seem to like those, but they eventually died also.

I'll try to get a photo tonight of the snails if any are out and about. Also, about my fish population I have roughly 20 +/- adult darters that are always hungry. Also, most of my darters are aggressive males. My tank has a natural process to the darters surviving. Non-aggressive darters will not make it, they tend to get 'the dwindles' and die. I don't think they get enough food because they are more 'laid-back' during feedings.

What is this 'trap door'?

It is the operculum. If a "trap door" snail withdraws into it's shell it has a flat sheet of shell that covers the opening. That is the operculum, or "trap door". When snails without an operculum close up you can still see the snail squishiness back tucked in there.

Here is a picture of one.

http://www.mdfrc.org...aviviparid2.jpg

Basically, we're going to have to have a snail ID photo in order to identify the problem. And I was serious about sending you some of my snails. If you pay eight bucks for shipping, I can have four hundred snails at your doorstep in three days.

I brought home some snails from the Neuse River once, I think they were Leptoxis and Elimia species (family Pleuroceridae, with operculum and gill-breathers) and they didn't live long in the aquarium: just a week or two. Common ramshorn and pond snails were fine in that tank. So I guess the Pleurocerids are more sensitive than the snails commonly used for aquaria.

Here are some photos. These may or may not be the same kind of snail, though I think they all came from Buck Creek KY in the middle Cumberland Drainage. Though the macro on my camera works good for these smaller guys, I had a hard time getting the camera to focus in on the snails on the glass.

Snail 1



Snail 2



Snail 3



Others

Those are members of the Pleuroceridae, AKA periwinkles. They're a big group and I don't know the genera and species well. You can see the operculum covering the foot in the last four shots. These are gilled snails and tend to occur in clean, cool, well-oxygenated water. I've had mixed success with them in aquaria. They're certainly not as tough or prolific as some of the pond snails in the families Physidae, Viviparidae, Ancylidae, and Planorbidae.

If you want some surefire snails, go to a weedy or mucky pond and pick through the plants/substrate. You're virtually guaranteed to turn up some physids, which are thin-shelled, non-opercled, snails with a shorter, more rounded (but still conical) shell that twists the other way- if you hold the point (spire) up and the opening facing you, the opening will be on the left instead of the right. Those guys are indestructible breeding machines.

I'll keep my eye out for some in mucky water. These types of snails tend to only last a few weeks. With a closer inspection yesterday, I did notice a lot of shells were actually emtpy.

This is one thing they don't like;


I doubt you have one of those but you asked....

Also banded sunfish eat snail egg masses, even when well fed. The small tank containing the giant water beetle also had banded sunnies and it went snail free after awhile.
Pumpkinseeds also have the ability, like african cichlids, of keeping a tank snail free no matter how many you add.

For me the problem is getting rid of too many snails. I just collect a few pond plants and all my tanks are well stocked with snails forever.

Giant water BUG. Bugs have a beak for spearing and sucking; beetles have jaws for chewing.
Both can eat snails that lack an operculum. Josh's KY snails look similar to our NC Elimia species.

MIKE - What are those orange things on the front legs? Look like mites.

Edited by gerald, 04 November 2010 - 11:51 AM.

Giant water BUG. Bugs have a beak for spearing and sucking; beetles have jaws for chewing.
Both can eat snails that lack an operculum. Josh's KY snails look similar to our NC Elimia species.

MIKE - What are those orange things on the front legs? Look like mites.

Thanks for the clarification. I never even gave it any thought - bug, beetle. Obviously this guy had quite the beak for spearing. He littered the tank with empty snail shells.

As far as I know, those ugly orange things were mites.