Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

Blue River, Indiana

Started by Guest_farmertodd_* , Dec 20 2010 11:08 PM

Please log in to reply

18 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:08 PM

Hi folks, finally getting a foothold on 2010 now that it's almost over

Took quite a few trips this year, I look forward to posting some of the bounty over the next couple weeks. A simple one to begin with is the Blue River in south central Indiana. I was there in late October with Lance Merry, I'm not sure if he post any of his photos or not. Anyway, this is one of Indiana crown streams. What it lacks in size compared to, say, the Tippecanoe, it more than makes up for in ease of access and hordes, literally hordes of spotted darter.

We had perfect light for underwater photography, and with the water so low, the fish were very concentrated. It was really difficult at first to get fish to stay in frame, as they only had to swim over a rock and then I could no longer see them. Eventually tho, crawling around bumped enough out of their hiding places to get them to play nice.

Bluebreast_01.jpg 146KB 2 downloads
Bluebreast Darter, Etheostoma camurum

Bluebreast_02.jpg 160.57KB 0 downloads
Bluebreast Darter, Etheostoma camurum

Bluebreast_15.jpg 167.7KB 0 downloads
Bluebreast Darter, Etheostoma camurum

Bluebreast_09.jpg 172.94KB 0 downloads
Bluebreast Darter, Etheostoma camurum - Female

Spotted_Darter_01.jpg 137.28KB 0 downloads
Spotted Darter, Etheostoma maculatum

Spotted_Darter_07.jpg 211.91KB 0 downloads
Spotted Darter, Etheostoma maculatum

Spotted_Darter_11.jpg 159.76KB 0 downloads
Spotted Darter, Etheostoma maculatum - Female

Stonecat_03.jpg 163.53KB 0 downloads
Stonecat Madtom, Noturus flavus

Over the winter, I'll add video to my YouTube site. That was really the real jewel from this day, but it'll take a lot more time to process.

Todd

Back to top

#2 Guest_daveneely_*

Guests

Posted 21 December 2010 - 03:08 PM

Good looking fish -- better than in any tank!!

Dave

Back to top

#3 Guest_Carl_*

Guests

Posted 21 December 2010 - 06:14 PM

Those shots look great! I can't wait to see more!

Back to top

#4 Guest_itsme_*

Guests

Posted 21 December 2010 - 06:24 PM

Sweet!

Back to top

#5 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 21 December 2010 - 11:20 PM

Thanks guys

Carl, did you get out much this year? I haven't had a chance to browse back through to see if you'd post anything.

Todd

Back to top

#6 Guest_BTDarters_*

Guests

Posted 22 December 2010 - 04:47 AM

Those pictures are AWESOME, Todd!! Thanks so much for sharing! I wish my tanks looked like that!!

Brian

Back to top

#7 Guest_Carl_*

Guests

Posted 24 December 2010 - 04:09 PM

No I didn't get out much at all. Hopefully next season will be better.

Thanks guys Carl, did you get out much this year? I haven't had a chance to browse back through to see if you'd post anything.

Todd

Back to top

#8 Guest_natureman187_*

Guests

Posted 27 December 2010 - 10:56 PM

Gorgeous place this was.

Gorgeous scenery.
Posted Image

Gorgeous fish.
Posted Image

Hordes of gorgeous fish...
Posted Image

Gorgeous kick seining technique!
Posted Image

I wasn't as fortunate in my underwater images as a chose to phototank a couple fish first in wake of a darkening sky.

Posted Image

Bluebreast Darter (Etheostoma camurum)

Posted Image

Homo sapien var Todd Crail

It soon became more overcast than my Olympus could handle and I brought back grain and mush. It was a zoo under there for sure - Nothonotus frenzy

Back to top

#9 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 28 December 2010 - 10:31 AM

What a good weekend, man. That's the shortest trip to the Highland Rim for me... the area deserves a whole lot more exploration!

Back to top

#10 Guest_jblaylock_*

Guests

Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:53 AM

Gorgeous fish.

Is that a Bluebreast or Orangefin on top?

Back to top

#11 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 28 December 2010 - 12:36 PM

Good eye Josh. That's an extremely orange bluebreast, both Lance and I were quite surprised and immediately began speculation on a variety of hypotheses (systematic, environmental).

I can't remember where the Blue fell out in Ben's analysis of the camurus clade. Ben, Tom?

Todd

Back to top

#12 Guest_jblaylock_*

Guests

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:17 PM

I thought the Orangefin was endemic to the Green River system. The thread said Blue River IN, but that photo looks dead on like one. The Spotted darter can be found in the Green also, I first thought you mixed up your photos.

Back to top

#13 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 28 December 2010 - 01:47 PM

Some of that is glare and light, but your point is well taken!

The conditions in the Blue are very similar to the Green, particularly in the lower portions of the stream. There's a lot of infiltration from ground water and springs to the cherty limestone rock. What the Blue lacks is the Green's size - which informs my hypothesis about the absence of tippecanoe darter from the Blue, for example. I expect to do a lot more environmental work in the Blue, Salt and Green in the future. They give me 3 very nice replicates where only a few variables are modified.

Todd

Back to top

#14 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

Guests

Posted 28 December 2010 - 07:19 PM

Great photos guys! Looks like a fun trip for sure. That orange E. camurum sure makes an interesting case -- would have to follow up with subsequent sampling in different seasons to see if the orange color is ephemeral (though the colors of Nothonotus seem to be the most stable throughout the varying seasons).

Were all the male E. camurum sampled that orange? Also, did you guys find any E. variatum (or is that the White?) and did you see any snot otters? I believe the Blue is the last river in Indiana that has a population or two of Cryptobranchus holding on.

Blake

Back to top

#15 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 28 December 2010 - 08:50 PM

Most of them had the orange cast to them, some more than others. This was not surprising, given the amount of chert in the channel (see the first spotted darter pic above). It doesn't take much imagination to see how this orangish color is selected for, or where whence Tippecanoe and gold darters got completely orange, and why our golden friends to the south are so much more brilliant in their orange throughout the year (I bet you'd find a strong correlation between color and probability of grabbing a piece of chert). However, the chert was only prevalent in the lower portions where the stream had mined into the right units of bedrock to provide the material. When you go to the Green River, it's hard to find a piece of rock that isn't chert, especially up the Barren tribs to the south

Didn't have time to hunt for snot otters. That, I think, will require a float, although the site that Lance has photographed here had siltstone present in some of the units above where the stream was at, which is what produces those monster slabs. So upstream of there might be prime. I'm going to guess tho that it's multimodal and we'll need to find where it's mining the siltstone and has a heavy inflow of springs for thermal stability, and those are further downstream, so far as I know.

Also, Lance, you were supposed to photoshop the gray off my head in the photos. Who is that old guy?!?

Todd

Edited by farmertodd, 28 December 2010 - 09:36 PM.

Back to top

#16 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

Guests

Posted 28 December 2010 - 09:44 PM

Didn't have time to hunt for snot otters.

Hah! Snot Otters indeed! I've never heard them called that, but it is very appropriate 8-)

Back to top

#17 Guest_farmertodd_*

Guests

Posted 28 December 2010 - 10:18 PM

I must give credit where credit is due... Nick Zarlinga came up with that one lol

Also, I see I forgot to answer your variatum question... They're only in the Whitewater River (Great Miami River drainage). They only have been found in streams that were part of the Old Kentucky River and Teays River systems (Pre-Wisconsinin systems). They may have been found in the Blue River and the mainstem of the Ohio in that area pre-impoundment (spotted darter were just recently known from there!)... But post-impoundment, there may not have been enough patch to sustain them in the disturbance, as were other stream arms along that stretch (or other streams to the east like Kinnickinick and Ohio Brush Creeks). The lower Wabash may have been too low of productivity during outwash (banded darter are also absent) and then became alluvial too quickly once the meltwater stopped.

Those are just arm chair hypotheses though. That's one species I'd like also to get my head around better. Those dang things move around so much through the year, and once we get telemetry a little smaller, they might be a good candidate species.

Todd

Back to top

#18 Guest_fundulus_*

Guests

Posted 28 December 2010 - 10:50 PM

That's interesting about the lower Wabash maybe having had low productivity, especially too low to support banded darters. I know you're not a geologist (me neither!), but is there evidence of rock flour in the Wabash sediments from the outwash period? That would certainly make for low productivity since it would have made the water nearly opaque.

Back to top

#19 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

Guests

Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:09 AM

Thanks for the information! I can definitely see how the orange color would be slowly adaptable to the color of the chert, as seen in your spotted darter photo.

In regards to snot otters -- I've heard that used quite a few times. It seems to be quite popular if it was started by a single NANFA member.

Thanks for clearing up the IN distribution of E. variatum; I will have to look more into the Teays River system, as all the information I've been able to find involves how geologist have used multifarious evidence to reconstruct the Teays River network pre-glaciation and little on its remnants post-glaciation. That's an interesting hypothesis in regards to the effects of impoundment on E. zonale distribution and how that could correlate with E. variatum being wiped out in the Blue (if they ever existed there).

Blake

Edited by blakemarkwell, 29 December 2010 - 03:09 AM.