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buying some Elassoma evergladei

Started by Guest_sailorv_* , Mar 05 2011 05:59 PM

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19 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_sailorv_*

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 05:59 PM

can otos can be a suitable tank mate for Elassoma Evergladei?
I'm thinking about buying some Elassoma Evergladei for my ten gallon and use otos for clean up and snails as well.

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#2 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 05 March 2011 - 06:08 PM

can otos can be a suitable tank mate for Elassoma Evergladei?
I'm thinking about buying some Elassoma Evergladei for my ten gallon and use otos for clean up and snails as well.

I dont have any information about non-native fish... but I can tell you that you do not need any clean up crew other than pond snails... I have done this with a couple of different species... in a 10 gallon... with a lot of live plants... add six or so Elassoma and some snails and you are good to go...

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#3 Guest_sailorv_*

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 10:20 PM

Oh is that so? :smile2:

Ok then. I can't wait till next week then or the next next week then!
For now I buy some sand and plants and a flouresent light for the lighting fixture.

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#4 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 02:19 PM

For now I buy some sand and plants and a flouresent light for the lighting fixture.

Aim to get your light as close to 6500 K as you can. Info: http://en.wikipedia....lor_temperature

And sand is just silicon dioxide. It doesn't have any nutrients in it that plants can use to grow. You should either fertilize it (link: http://s.petco.com/a...7163035771c.jpg ) or mix a nutritious substrate into it. The advantage of a substrate like soil or kitty litter is that not only is it nutritious like the fertilizer tabs are, but also it will replenish its nutrients from the water column over time. That's was cation exchange capacity (CEC) is; the ability of the substrate to replenish its nutrients from the water column over time. Info: http://www.thekrib.c...rate-jamie.html (there are two good sections there, one on what's in kitty litter / soil / sand, and one on what CEC is).

Also, snails are not just cleanup but also a major food for Elassoma.
Quote from http://en.wikipedia....d_pygmy_sunfish , "Stomach contents of 46 individual banded pygmy sunfish (26 of which were spawning adults) collected at Mound, Louisiana were examined for food identification by Barney and Anson. The main food identified at Mound included insect larvae (mostly from the family Chironomidae), small crustaceans and snail eggs. The crustaceans and snail eggs combined constituted the majority of the content. Next in quantity was the insect larva. It is also noted that minute amounts of algal spores were ingested by these fish. It is most likely that these algal blooms were taken in accidentally with other prey. Lastly, no other fish species or banded pygmy sunfish larva were found in the stomach contents."

They will also eat blackworms, moina, daphnia, microworms (the fry will), and I've given my Elassoma gilberti live brine shrimp but only about half of them figure out to eat them. Adding crushed fish flakes, like with using a mortar and pestle to grind them up, will supplementally feed the smarter of your Elassoma and will keep the snails well fed and breeding. The Elassoma only eat the young snails, you see, so it's important that they're breeding.

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#5 Guest_sailorv_*

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 03:47 PM

Will ADA Aqua soil be fine? I recently look into this brand and I would like to give it a try.
And as for the plants will vallisneria, cabomba, bocopa be fine plant for these species? I also have some pond snails in my 20 long community aquarium so the snails won't be a problem. :smile2:

Edited by sailorv, 06 March 2011 - 04:14 PM.

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#6 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 04:50 PM

Will ADA Aqua soil be fine? I recently look into this brand and I would like to give it a try.

Sure, ADA Aqua soil would work... but before you buy it, you should know that there are alternatives.
ADA Aquasoil pricing is available here: http://www.adgshop.c...a_Soil_s/21.htm I'm seeing $12 for 3 Liters.

Diana Walstad recommends Scotts Lawn Care Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Soil, which is $3 for 8 quarts: http://www.scotts.co...itemId=cat50154

Now look at the percent composition of kitty litter and soil here: http://www.thekrib.c...rate-jamie.html When I look at that analysis, what I'm interpreting is that kitty litter, fluorite, and soil are all full of nutrients and that any of them would grow plants just great. So what's the price difference between them? Well, if you look at Walmart's Special Kitty brand litter, it's about $3 for 25 pounds: http://www.walmart.c...-25-lb/10293705 My entire 55 gallon tank was filled for less than $7 for 50 pounds of substrate. I love kitty litter.

Here's a current picture of my tank, which uses pure kitty litter substrate: http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1 Of course, my pH is between 7.5 and 8 and my hardness is between 16 and 20 dH, which are things you may or may not want in your tank. Kitty litter is variable depending on where you live, so yours may be acidic, basic, hard, or soft. It's the luck of the draw (of where your Walmart got that batch of clay from). I'm happy with my tank and its water conditions. So are my plants.

And as for the plants will vallisneria, cabomba, bocopa be fine plant for these species? I also have some pond snails in my 20 long community aquarium so the snails won't be a problem.

I've got cabomba and bacopa both myself. The Elassoma gilberti don't play in or around the bacopa. I think the leaves are too spaced out for them to feel comfortable. They do enjoy the cabomba; I always see half a dozen in there. But their absolute favorite is the Ceratophyllum demersum.

Rank of Elassoma gilberti density in these plants in my tank:
#1: Ceratophyllum demersum
#2: Cabomba caroliniana
#3: Myriophyllum aquaticum
#4: water lettuce roots
#5: Bacopa monnieri

It would seem the fuzzier the plant, the more they like hiding in it.

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#7 Guest_nativeplanter_*

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 05:04 PM

Diana Walstad recommends Scotts Lawn Care Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Soil, which is $3 for 8 quarts: http://www.scotts.co...itemId=cat50154

I'm not sure I would recommend the Scotts Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Soil. It has an awful lot of nutrients in it for an aquatic tank. Fine for a potted plant, not so fine if you are trying to avoid algae. Also, if you look at the ingredients, there are no actual soil particles in it. It consists entirely of organic material - composted bark, sphagnum peat moss, and pasturized poultry litter. It sounds great for potted plants and I may try it myself. But I wouldn't put it in my tank; I think it would lead to an algae outbreak.

Do you have any access to soil from outside? If not, you could buy a bag of "top soil", not "potting soil". Almost all potting soils out there consist entirely of organic materials like "composted forest products"

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#8 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 05:26 PM

I'm not sure I would recommend the Scotts Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Soil. It has an awful lot of nutrients in it for an aquatic tank.

I agree; I would hesitate to put that in my tank.
I got the quote of what she recommends from here: http://theaquariumwi.../Walstad_method but I'm not sure if the stuff I found is "Organic Choice Potting Soil". It says "mix" instead of "soil". I probably linked to the wrong product, but I can't seem to find the right one.

Edited by EricaWieser, 06 March 2011 - 05:27 PM.

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#9 Guest_sailorv_*

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 06:33 PM

Sure, ADA Aqua soil would work... but before you buy it, you should know that there are alternatives.
ADA Aquasoil pricing is available here: http://www.adgshop.c...a_Soil_s/21.htm I'm seeing $12 for 3 Liters.

Diana Walstad recommends Scotts Lawn Care Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Soil, which is $3 for 8 quarts: http://www.scotts.co...itemId=cat50154

Now look at the percent composition of kitty litter and soil here: http://www.thekrib.c...rate-jamie.html When I look at that analysis, what I'm interpreting is that kitty litter, fluorite, and soil are all full of nutrients and that any of them would grow plants just great. So what's the price difference between them? Well, if you look at Walmart's Special Kitty brand litter, it's about $3 for 25 pounds: http://www.walmart.c...-25-lb/10293705 My entire 55 gallon tank was filled for less than $7 for 50 pounds of substrate. I love kitty litter.

Here's a current picture of my tank, which uses pure kitty litter substrate: http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1 Of course, my pH is between 7.5 and 8 and my hardness is between 16 and 20 dH, which are things you may or may not want in your tank. Kitty litter is variable depending on where you live, so yours may be acidic, basic, hard, or soft. It's the luck of the draw (of where your Walmart got that batch of clay from). I'm happy with my tank and its water conditions. So are my plants.

I've got cabomba and bacopa both myself. The Elassoma gilberti don't play in or around the bacopa. I think the leaves are too spaced out for them to feel comfortable. They do enjoy the cabomba; I always see half a dozen in there. But their absolute favorite is the Ceratophyllum demersum.

Rank of Elassoma gilberti density in these plants in my tank:
#1: Ceratophyllum demersum
#2: Cabomba caroliniana
#3: Myriophyllum aquaticum
#4: water lettuce roots
#5: Bacopa monnieri

It would seem the fuzzier the plant, the more they like hiding in it.

Oh my god, your aquarium is gorgeous! :happy:

Now I’m having hard time whether should buy ADA aqua soil or the kitty litter method, both have appealing looks. I want to have fun setting with this project..
Which would look more authentic to Elassoma evergladei habitat? The kitty litter substrate or the ADA aqua soil or another substrate?

Edited by sailorv, 06 March 2011 - 07:16 PM.

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#10 Guest_gzeiger_*

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:20 PM

Dirt, from what I saw.

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#11 Guest_sailorv_*

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:33 PM

oh and one more thing, are Jonah's Aquarium and aquaculturestore has wild caught specimen or are they captive bred?

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#12 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 02:36 PM

oh and one more thing, are Jonah's Aquarium and aquaculturestore has wild caught specimen or are they captive bred?

Isn't his username itsme? You can private message him, I think.

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#13 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 04:42 PM

At the moment, our Elassoma are wild caught. At times we have captive raised ones. Your results should be the same. Wild might be preferred for genetic diversity. FYI, Elassoma should do fine with otocinclus.

This is a great thread full of info. I'll have to come back at read some more in detail!

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#14 Guest_sailorv_*

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 09:50 AM

I have another question.
I'm thinking about buying some rotinfers and daphnia, is their any good benefits other than being food sources for the fish and the fries? I don't know why I'm asking this question... But I feel like their more benefits other than being food sources.

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#15 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 09:58 AM

I have another question.
I'm thinking about buying some rotinfers and daphnia, is their any good benefits other than being food sources for the fish and the fries? I don't know why I'm asking this question... But I feel like their more benefits other than being food sources.

I don't know of any, maybe others do. Only thing comes to mind is if you had a lot of suspended single-celled algae, the daphnia and rotifers would eat that, possibly helping to clear the water.

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#16 Guest_dirtydutch4x_*

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 06:43 PM

I have 3 right now and I am wondering if they can be housed with flag-fish? I have a 20 long right now with bluefin's, least killi's, and some flag-fish. the tank is heavily planted and running for over a year now and I would like to add them to the tank if they can live together peacefully. I also have a 55 that is heavily planted with flag-fish, a handful or more of H.Formosa, large mouth fry(around half inch), and 2 dollar sunfish about 2 inches.

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#17 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 09:47 PM

I have 3 right now and I am wondering if they can be housed with flag-fish? I have a 20 long right now with bluefin's, least killi's, and some flag-fish. the tank is heavily planted and running for over a year now and I would like to add them to the tank if they can live together peacefully. I also have a 55 that is heavily planted with flag-fish, a handful or more of H.Formosa, large mouth fry(around half inch), and 2 dollar sunfish about 2 inches.

I would not combine those fish. Keep in mind that although fully grown Elassoma are an inch long their fry remain under a half inch for the first four months of their life. They very easily become food for basically everything else.

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#18 Guest_hydrosparky_*

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:07 AM

Will Elassoma evergladei eat scuds?

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#19 Guest_dirtydutch4x_*

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:15 PM

mine have been eating them.

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#20 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:08 AM

Scuds would need to be small ones. I've seen them from about half an inch down to as small as you want. Elassoma have tiny mouths, as you know, if you own any.