What is the difference between Rock Bass and Shadow Bass? Or! are they the same fish?
Rock and Shadow Bass
Started by
Guest_Wolf_*
, Apr 17 2011 11:32 PM
15 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_FirstChAoS_*
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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:13 AM
What is the difference between Rock Bass and Shadow Bass? Or! are they the same fish?
Different species in the same genus. Where I live we only have rock bass, but the images of shadow bass I have seen seem to show they have stronger markings. I am not sure how similar their behavior and habitats are.
#3
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 18 April 2011 - 06:18 AM
What is the difference between Rock Bass and Shadow Bass? Or! are they the same fish?
Check out this thread
http://forum.nanfa.o...e__hl__peterson
an inexpensive answer to many questions such as yours.
Looking at page 489 and 490, my quick answer would be that shadow bass are in general a more southernly species with a range mostly in MS, AL, and GA. rock bass have a much more broad range from MN to NY to TN. Rock bass are also said to have a much larger maximum size. But really, buy the reference... for less than 20 bucks it is one of the best values out there for those of us interested in fish.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#4
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:36 PM
Freshwater Fishes of Louisiana does not list shadow bass - only rock bass. But interestingly, according to a SFC supplement published in 2002 (also written by Neil Douglas), only shadow bass are listed as occurring in LA. i wonder what that's all about?
I have only caught shadow bass in MS - never rock bass (AFAIR).
I have only caught shadow bass in MS - never rock bass (AFAIR).
#5
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:04 PM
Freshwater Fishes of Louisiana does not list shadow bass - only rock bass. But interestingly, according to a SFC supplement published in 2002 (also written by Neil Douglas), only shadow bass are listed as occurring in LA. i wonder what that's all about?
I have only caught shadow bass in MS - never rock bass (AFAIR).
Even more to the mystery... Shadow bass were first described in 1936 with a type locality listed in St Tammany Parrish, Louisiana...!!! By some guy named Percy Viosca... check out his picture on this web site... looks like your kind of crazy... should no doubt be an honorary member of the Catfish Alliance.
http://www.lib.lsu.e...osca/About.html
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#6
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:13 PM
Interesting fellowe! Thanks for that, Michael!
I see you have the afternoon off as well...
I see you have the afternoon off as well...
#7
Guest_travishaas_*
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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:35 PM
Interesting "history of ichthyology" discussion, guys...now you've got me interested too.
Boschung and Mayden's Alabama book has a bit of light to shine on the subject (p. 442):
"Bailey and Hubbs (1949) regard Ambloplites ariommus as a subspecies of A. rupestris...Cashner and Suttkus (1977) elevated A. ariommus to species."
So basically, when Fishes of Louisiana was written (1974), the shadow bass was a subspecies of rock bass. Three years later, the shadow bass was elevated to species, and all of the rock bass in Louisiana magically turned to shadow bass overnight.
Cool.
Travis Haas
New Orleans
Boschung and Mayden's Alabama book has a bit of light to shine on the subject (p. 442):
"Bailey and Hubbs (1949) regard Ambloplites ariommus as a subspecies of A. rupestris...Cashner and Suttkus (1977) elevated A. ariommus to species."
So basically, when Fishes of Louisiana was written (1974), the shadow bass was a subspecies of rock bass. Three years later, the shadow bass was elevated to species, and all of the rock bass in Louisiana magically turned to shadow bass overnight.
Cool.
Travis Haas
New Orleans
#8
Guest_Wolf_*
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Posted 19 April 2011 - 02:59 AM
So what are they? I live in Louisiana, East of the Mississippi and West of the Pearl. Do we have Rocks or Shadow Bass? The ones I catch in the creeks around here are of a brown molt. I’ve been going by Neil Douglas book. He calls them Rock Bass. So what are they?
#9
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 19 April 2011 - 06:03 AM
So what are they? I live in Louisiana, East of the Mississippi and West of the Pearl. Do we have Rocks or Shadow Bass? The ones I catch in the creeks around here are of a brown molt. I’ve been going by Neil Douglas book. He calls them Rock Bass. So what are they?
Shadow Bass
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#10
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 19 April 2011 - 06:05 AM
Interesting "history of ichthyology" discussion, guys...now you've got me interested too.
Boschung and Mayden's Alabama book has a bit of light to shine on the subject (p. 442):
"Bailey and Hubbs (1949) regard Ambloplites ariommus as a subspecies of A. rupestris...Cashner and Suttkus (1977) elevated A. ariommus to species."
So basically, when Fishes of Louisiana was written (1974), the shadow bass was a subspecies of rock bass. Three years later, the shadow bass was elevated to species, and all of the rock bass in Louisiana magically turned to shadow bass overnight.
Cool.
Travis Haas
New Orleans
That's one thing I always forget about when I look at a description and see 1936 I assume that on that day, everyone agreed that it was a different thing... but that is obviously not the case... sometimes people decide that it is all lumped together and only later do the splitters come along and re-elevate the original description. Thanks for that Travis... another reason to have another good reference book...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#11
Guest_rjmtx_*
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Posted 19 April 2011 - 06:23 AM
Alright, here's a little Rock/Shadow sidenote:
When I was an undergrad, we had the same question about the introduced (sometime in the late 1800s/early 1900s) Ambloplites species in the San Marcos and Guadalupe Rivers of TX. I caught a bunch, counted scales and fin rays, and they all came out in a gray area between the two species, often tending to be a little more like shadow bass (son't remember the counts right now, but they overlap or are really close). I ran mtDNA on the specimens I had, and they all came back Rock Bass. It's possible they were hybrids, as I didn't take the research any further, but those two fish are so dang close... The rock bass in the SMR and GR look more like pictures we had of Shadow Bass, and that's what triggered the little project.
When I was an undergrad, we had the same question about the introduced (sometime in the late 1800s/early 1900s) Ambloplites species in the San Marcos and Guadalupe Rivers of TX. I caught a bunch, counted scales and fin rays, and they all came out in a gray area between the two species, often tending to be a little more like shadow bass (son't remember the counts right now, but they overlap or are really close). I ran mtDNA on the specimens I had, and they all came back Rock Bass. It's possible they were hybrids, as I didn't take the research any further, but those two fish are so dang close... The rock bass in the SMR and GR look more like pictures we had of Shadow Bass, and that's what triggered the little project.
#12
Guest_Wolf_*
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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:05 PM
I know the book I have by Neil Douglas is old and might be out dated. Right now it is what I have and can’t afford to spend the money on something new. I went collecting today and caught a bunch of little ones and this nice one, And buy the way it is getting that time of year, so watch where you put your feet. This one is only a Rat Snack.
#13
Guest_NVCichlids_*
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Posted 19 April 2011 - 04:57 PM
what is the current status of the shadow bass? Is it a protected species? trying to run through fishbase and such sites and i seem to find conflicting information.
#14
Guest_rjmtx_*
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Posted 19 April 2011 - 05:27 PM
what is the current status of the shadow bass? Is it a protected species? trying to run through fishbase and such sites and i seem to find conflicting information.
No, not protected. Tastes good.
#15
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 19 April 2011 - 07:39 PM
No, not protected. Tastes good.
So do rat snacks.
#16
Guest_smbass_*
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Posted 22 April 2011 - 10:04 AM
As a visual observation having caught both of these... Shadow bass are deeper bodied than rock bass and also have more pigment on the front portion of the dorsal and anal fins with the soft rear portion of both being rather clear with some spots giving the fins a distinct two tone appearance. This really shows up on little guys and to me is a visual difference between those two.
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