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My L. ommata tank - questions


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#1 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 02:29 PM

In my introduction post I mentioned my latest L. ommata tank. The tank, which has been up 4 weeks, is a 5 gallon with 8 adults (2 males and 6 females). It is full of hornwort, and I mean full! You can’t really see from the front to the back of the tank. The substrate (Eco-complete) level is about half covered by several annubias, a small Windelov fern, and a couple of small pieces of wood. The fish share it with red ramshorn snails. My water is extremely and naturally soft. I don’t have a camera (not even a cell phone camera) or I would put up a picture. The fish seem content, plump and sleek, eating decapped brine shrimp eggs, newly hatched brine shrimp, frozen adult brine shrimp (though I have not actually seen them eat those), and flake. I fed them live black worm once but they ignored them or didn't notice them, except for one of the males who grabbed one and promptly let it go when it struggled. Any suggestions on other food? Would the smaller worms be OK, like micro, Walter, and banana? I'm probably going to try culturing Daphnia for them.

I think I’ve seen spawning behavior. Male and female side by side shimmying like crazy - never saw that in the first two tanks. But I have not seen eggs when they do that but then I don’t know if I would. How big are ommata eggs? I would love them to establish a colony but I am not sure I will be able to properly feed the newly hatched fry. From my reading it sounds like they would need green water and infusoria at first, and I have never tried to culture those.

For the 12 gallon, I plan to plant it heavily including water lettuce for the surface and am deciding between Etheostoma fusiforme and Lucania goodei. I would like to do both in that tank, but reading here I get the impression that Bluefins prefer to be alone. I also very much like H. formosa, but after my early experience wiht Platys, specifically homing the overpopulation, I am wary of livebearers.

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

Richard

#2 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 06:45 PM

Welcome to the forum!

I've never kept Etheostoma fusiforme or Lucania goodei, but I'd imagine that every fish likes a bigger tank. Have you tried looking on your local craigslist for used tanks? You can sometimes get really big ones for really cheap. For example, my 55 gallon tank was $25.

#3 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:10 PM

E.fusiforme are tough little fish with a tone of personality... I have kept them "under" quite a few different fish and they do very well... they are scrappy and scroungy and seem to be able to make a living in the tank under a variety of circumstances... they would do well under any other slackwater species of shiner or killi that I can think of...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#4 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 09:05 PM

Thank you, Erica and Michael.

Erica - I too like as big a tank as possible and appropriate and only wish I had the room for more. Right now there are two incredible deals on my area Craigslist, a 90 g with stand and 55 g with stand, both with filters and both under $50.00. I'd like to move my 40g into one of those, but the work involved is daunting as it is very heavily planted. I was thinking the 12 g would be OK for the darter or the bluefin as the person I would probably buy them from says a 10 g is OK for both species. By the way, earlier this week I read through your long thread about your gilbertis. Very interesting and I had to smile when you talked about their shyness. My ommatas always move away when I sit near them, and the tank is so thick with hornwort, they are invisible. But if I sit quietly for a few minutes, most of them reappear, especially one female who seems to run the tank. She has claimed the area right under where the food comes in. I'd like to do gilbertis myself but it seems like they really need live food which I worry about being able to always provide.

Michael - Thanks for the information. You make them sound even more interesting! It seems you think a 12 g would be OK for them and they would be OK with bluefins. But would the bluefins like it? I'm torn; I love darter behavior and bluefin appearance.

Thanks again. I'll most likely at least start with the darters - 4 of them, I think.

#5 Guest_NVCichlids_*

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 06:54 AM

i have never kept the bluefins, but I have kept the darters, and if your goal is to breed the bluefins, I feel that the darters will consume any fry that appear within their range.

#6 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 10:08 AM

The Bluefin killies I kept years ago were pretty mean, and might terrorize L.ommata in a small tank.
Swamp, sawcheek, or brown darters would be less likely to intimidate your ommata.

#7 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 01:07 PM

Thanks, Gerald - I will be keeping the L. ommatas in their own tank, though I might move them to a 10 gallon eventually, still on their own - I have one 10 and one 12 g tank available. I'm still unclear if there is a consensus on 12 gallons being adequate to 4 swamp darters.

#8 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 01:41 PM

The Bluefin killies I kept years ago were pretty mean, and might terrorize L.ommata in a small tank.
Swamp, sawcheek, or brown darters would be less likely to intimidate your ommata.

omatta and edwini now that is a really nice idea... makes me want to go back to the Okefenokee and get some omatta (I already have the edwini)...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#9 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:07 PM

Just a little update and two questions.

The ommatas continue to do well eating BBS, decapped BS eggs, flake and now I have added Grindal worms which they love. Today I received some dried earthworms and some earthworm flake, so I'll be seeing if they like those too. Flake is, of course, their least favorite of the foods, but they do eat it. Still seeing spawning activity but no results yet.

A friend who is a killifish guy has spawned L. goodeis (his only native killie) but no ommatas, but he says that I need to collect the eggs. But I believe it was on here that I saw two people mention that they had ommata colonies that went on for a few years. It was not my impression that they were collecting the eggs. I'm assuming I do not have to collect the eggs(?).

My other question. I bought a PandS camera and have some pictures of the tank - not great as I learn to deal with glare and reflections but they show the tank OK. Am I allowed to put them in the NANFA gallery so that I can put them in this thread more easily? Also want to get some pictures of the native tank at my job. A paddlefish, a black crappie, and several other fish I am trying to identify.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

#10 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 07:00 PM

I haven't kept L. ommata yet, but I have kept bluefin killies and one of the tropical killies.

I think most killies can be kept one of two ways. First way, is collect the eggs and raise the fry in a separate tank, which is more work but can result in large numbers of fish. The second way is to provide a species only tank with lots of vegetation/cover for eggs and fry. This will result in fewer fry but can give you a self sustaining colony.

I also have several mangrove killies in brackish community tanks, and I have enough fry survive to slowly increase their numbers. Since I'm not interested in selling fish, it works well for me.

#11 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:24 PM

Thanks for the reply. They are in a species tank that has lots of hornwort, lots. And all I am interested in is a self-sustaining group, not to sell them. In fact, they don't seem to be all that popular to keep, so I feel lucky that a couple of people do sell them. I love the way they move, that they like thick vegetation and their colors and size. SFL in my name is for small fish lover. Most of my fish are two inches or less,

I fed them the earthworm flake tonight and they seemed to like it a much better than the Tetra Color that I have been using.

#12 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:12 PM

Late update: I pruned the ommata tank this past weekend and sat down to observe it. I saw 3, maybe 4 fish that are only about 3/4 of an inch long(smaller than the original population I put in the tank). I believe they must be fry that I am only now seeing because the tank was so densely planted. All the other ommata in the tank are well over an inch. They did this on their own on a diet of primarily brine shrimp eggs, live grindal worms, and earthworm flake (their least favorite). The tank is unheated and ranges from 70F to 75F - usually hovers at 70F.

And I now have a tank of H. formosa and E. fusiforme - very entertaining.

#13 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:10 PM

Congratulations... I love the minimal human interference approach... earthworm flakes, while their least favoraite are packed with protein... I am hoping to run into planty of ommata when we go Back to the Swamp in a few weeks.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#14 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:21 PM

Ditto on the minimal interference approach. I like to well provide for the basics (water parameters, food, appropriate tank mates if any, tank size) and leave the rest to them.

Also, all my fish except the ommatas love the earthworm flake, including my new swamp darters and H. formosas.

#15 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:52 PM

Very interesting... I too have darters that eat earthworm flakes... I think they can really "taste" the difference... have you tried cyclop-eeze ow whatever the right name is? I have use it in both the dust form and what they call wafers... which is really like a flake... still bright orange... I have never compared it to eartworm flakes as far as who lieks it better... but I do know that the darters eagerly attack the earthworm flake and the cyclopeeze stuff... even Elassoma seem to have eaten it in the past... I will hopefulle be able to try and find out in April... coming Back from the Swamp with some of those lemon swamp killis (I hope)
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#16 Guest_RichardSFL_*

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:47 PM

I haven't tried Cyclop-eeze yet - I cna get some frozen in the near future. So far I am feeding them (the darters) brine shrimp eggs and newly hatched BBS in addition to the earthworm flake. The person I got them from said they were eating frozen bloodworm also but I haven't tried that yet.

I have never heard L. ommatas called lemon swamp killies. It fits my males for sure.

I've also never encountered a cyclopeeze wafer - what is the brand? Thanks.

#17 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:19 PM

I have gotten it at the LFS and I think at Dr Fosters and Smith on line...

but also you can see it on amazon
http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/B001EUI426
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin



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