Fuzzy Whiteness

Does anybody have any idea what is this fuzzy whiteness below the dorsal fin of this fish? It's like the skin has been roughed up a bit. Is it from aggression? There are other longears, pumpkinseeds, greens, bluegill, and a yellow perch with it. I notice it on the bluegill, this guy, and maybe one other longear. In case it's water quality related, I'm doing a water change. But I'm guessing aggression.

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That looks like a scrape to me, I see this quite often on larger fish in tanks with structure. A quick dart too close to a rock or piece of driftwood is all it takes. I am sure that the same results could come from aggression, but I would expect to see more damage in the tail area.

That looks like a scrape to me, I see this quite often on larger fish in tanks with structure. A quick dart too close to a rock or piece of driftwood is all it takes. I am sure that the same results could come from aggression, but I would expect to see more damage in the tail area.

Yeah, it looks like a case of mildly shredded slime coat. A healthy fish should recover quickly.

He's not a hybrid, is he? (just kidding!)

Just in case... Are you feeding them pretty heavy (primarily) with frozen salt water organisms like krill or shrimp? I've seen Centrarchids react to excess salts in a similar fashion, like a mold is growing in the slime coat. I had stonecats with some of the fish which prevented using just pellet food, which I got lazy, and just kept dumping in the krill. When I finally figured out what the problem was, I was able to flush them out switching the diet to nightcrawlers and some pellet food, saturating the sunfish with pellets to assure getting plenty of worm down to the madtoms.

Within days, the "moldiness" was gone, and being the geek I am... I fed my HYBRID cyanellus x macrochirus (known affectionately as Mr. Nasty) solely on krill again, with the other fish in two treatments, no krill (only worms and pellet) and moderation (half krill, half worms and pellets). Only he redeveloped the symptoms, and I took him back through the same flushing process, and haven't had this problem since switching up the diet.

Apparently, their livers can only deal with so much salt and iodine

Todd

Just in case... Are you feeding them pretty heavy (primarily) with frozen salt water organisms like krill or shrimp? I've seen Centrarchids react to excess salts in a similar fashion, like a mold is growing in the slime coat. I had stonecats with some of the fish which prevented using just pellet food, which I got lazy, and just kept dumping in the krill. When I finally figured out what the problem was, I was able to flush them out switching the diet to nightcrawlers and some pellet food, saturating the sunfish with pellets to assure getting plenty of worm down to the madtoms.

Very interesting, Todd. I have been feeding mainly freeze dried freshwater shrimp and krill pacifica from Avid Aquatics. I ran out and started using freeze dried "plankton" from my LFS, which looks just like the krill pacifica but is stinky. I got my new order in from Avid Aquatics, but have been using up the stuff from the LFS first, with a few freshwater shrimp to give bigger bites, especially for the bigger fish.

I supplement their diet with live feeders from time to time.

So I am going to assume that the "plankton" from the LFS is not doing them good. Is the krill pacifica from Avid Aquatics too salty also? Is it safe to assume the freshwater shrimp is okay?

I wasn't trying to get a good picture of the fish, but of the fuzz, and he kept moving. But this is my prized, burnt-orange longear from the December 9-10 trip. He's about the last fish I want to see anything happen to. I want all my fish looking nice and healthy, of course, but especially him.

I don't have much aggression in there, mainly the longears sometimes chasing the pumpkinseeds, but I haven't seen anybody actually attack anybody. It almost looks playful. The pumpkinseeds never do any chasing, by the way, regardless of other peoples' reports of them being aggressive, mine are totally benign.

Matt, I will keep an eye out for your rock theory. I do have some rough rocks in there. I do want to follow up on Todd's theory, though. The freshwater shrimp are too big for some of my smaller sunfish, though, like the bantams (housed separately, of course). They have been getting the krill pacifica. I have not seen this problem on them so far.

What I've found is that so long as half the diet is of freshwater origin, there aren't manifestations of this problem. Perhaps just feed your big guys the freshwater shrimp for a couple weeks to see if symptoms change. You might also go to a bait store and get some leaf worms. That's a great way to saturate feed without a big mess and they're really good for your fish.

I've never been big on feeders and store bought feeders are just a waste, as they're basically starving when you get them, and don't offer much of a nutritional package. You can gut load wild caught feeders with high protein flake food, and that's a good deal. But I'd feed worms way before I ever bothered moving fish around from place to place. I've even do this with pickerel, when I can keep them in their tanks

Todd

Just in case... Are you feeding them pretty heavy (primarily) with frozen salt water organisms like krill or shrimp? I've seen Centrarchids react to excess salts in a similar fashion, like a mold is growing in the slime coat. I had stonecats with some of the fish which prevented using just pellet food, which I got lazy, and just kept dumping in the krill.

Are you certain that salt was the issue? I ask since I personally have used saltwater organisms on sunfish for years and also keep them at a salinity of 1/4 seawater. I know of people that keep several thousands of dollars of freshwater tropicals in a single tank and have used SW foods for dozens of years. I'm not trying to say I'm certain it's OK to feed SW foods with FW fish but I wonder if any others have found SW foods to harm FW fish?

My sunfish occasionally will get this "fuzzy whiteness" on there sides. I am pretty certain it was from them scraping up against my rocks. It seems to clear up in a few days for me.

Since he is a prized fish, I'd keep a real close eye one that area. If it seems like it is growing at all, I'd immediately treat him with Maricyn Plus (the liquid). It is the only thing I've used that has been able to control columnaris (which is rather stubborn). Even if something else is the problem, it probably wouldn't hurt. It's a drag to lose a favorite fish.

...But this is my prized, burnt-orange longear from the December 9-10 trip. He's about the last fish I want to see anything happen to. I want all my fish looking nice and healthy, of course, but especially him.

Are you certain that salt was the issue?

Not necessarily "the salt", but the greater concentration of iodine and those type salts found in the marine organisms.

This may also be heightened (apparent) for the way the feeding regime goes. I stuff my fish full 3 times a week, so it's either feast or famine. This might also play a role in the symptoms I'm describing.

Nor am I saying this is Ed's issue, or anyone's issue

And I've only ever seen it occurr in Centrarchids. So it may not effect other species in a similar way.

Suckers, for example, don't seem bothered by it at all. Because I lazily dump food into the tanks and let the fish pick what they'd like to eat, my larger suckers preferentially eat krill, and as such, have a greater proportion of their diet from krill than the other freshwater organisms I feed.

Todd

I'm not 100% convinced either Todd, I think it may have some validity but I feed freeze dried krill pacifica (sw), freeze dried mysis (fw), and chopped salad shrimp (sw) to my sunfish. I have recently had a similar problem with some of the smaller warmouth and orangespotted sunfish but the fish in the tank right next to (including a warmouth and several longears) them receiving the same food have not developed this. I have been watching this post cloesly since I too have the same problem. I don't think however that it is a scrape because it looks like a thin film on their body, there is no sign of harm to the skin of the fish. It could very well be a salt related problem though because I do feed them daily and I am trying to keep them fat and get them into spawning condition so they are also fed heavily and 2 of the three food items are sw organisms. I just don't have a good answer for it though because if it is the salt then why only the fish in one tank and not the one next to it? We need a fish health specialist on here to play doctor for all of us.

Yeah, I noticed that, but I wasn't going to say anything

because if it is the salt then why only the fish in one tank and not the one next to it?

Hierarchy. Stress. Heterozygosity.

The three factors you can't control for in your situation. If they were on a multisystem with each fish in it's own similar tank, you could control for the first two.

You're stuck with statistics for the last. What are those goofy drug ads? One part is family, the other part is diet?

I'd really like to hear from a fish vet too. Obviously, my response is an anecdote, at best a hypothesis. But I did manipulate the factors when I had a series of fish on the edge, and was able to replicate and supress the symptoms without changing anything except diet (not even water ).

Give it a shot. Leaf worms. They do really well on your non-meat garbage and make more of themselves

Todd

I assume by "leaf worms" you mean the smaller worms sold at bait shops also often refered to as trout, panfish , or sometimes even red worms instead of the much larger "night crawlers"?

Yep, those are the ones. I can't think of the species right now. Anyone have a copy of "Worms eat my garbage" handy?

Something else I thought of since last post is that this is more akin to an allergy, like a rash, rather than disease.

It also seems that orangespots and warmouth are the most reactive in this situation. I've had trouble with all other species that I'd kept before making this change in regime (northern longear, pumpkinseed, green x bluegill, largemouth bass), but those two are the ones who show it first.

Todd

Watch it in case it spreads. There is a fungus called columnaris that is fuzzy looking, and kills off fish pretty quick, don't know if it occurs in cold water tanks though.

Watch it in case it spreads. There is a fungus called columnaris that is fuzzy looking, and kills off fish pretty quick, don't know if it occurs in cold water tanks though.

It does. It's also actually a bacteria, even though it is commonly called a fungus. Maracyn Plus is the only thing that I've used thats been able to treat it.

I've followed Todd's advice and there appears to be improvement already. Hopefully I'll report back in a week or two that it is all gone. I suspect it's the quality of the freeze dried "plankton" from the store. As I noted, it is stinky. The nearly identical looking "krill pacifica" from Avid Aquatics is not. I should stick with food from Avid Aquatics. For now, I'm also more specifically sticking with freshwater shrimp from Avid Aquatics.

Ed, It could also be a protozoan parasite, maybe Ichtyobodo, Costia, Chilodonella, Trichodina, etc theres several that cause a fuzzy or smooth looking pale body slime. i usually see columnaris (= Flexibacter or ) attacking the tail, mouth, or nostrils first, usually not on mid-body unless its a severe case. Gerald

Watch it in case it spreads. There is a fungus called columnaris that is fuzzy looking, and kills off fish pretty quick, don't know if it occurs in cold water tanks though.

It does. It's also actually a bacteria, even though it is commonly called a fungus. Maracyn Plus is the only thing that I've used thats been able to treat it.

Ed, It could also be a protozoan parasite, maybe Ichtyobodo, Costia, Chilodonella, Trichodina, etc theres several that cause a fuzzy or smooth looking pale body slime. i usually see columnaris (= Flexibacter or ) attacking the tail, mouth, or nostrils first, usually not on mid-body unless its a severe case. Gerald

Gerald,
What would the solution be in that case? Copper?

Here is the same fish photographed at lunchtime today (my lunchtime, not his ). After following Todd's advice for just a couple of days, the problem is completely gone! Thanks, Todd. And isn't he a beaut?

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