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More Shiner ID's needed

Started by Guest_FirstChAoS_* , Jul 30 2011 12:06 AM

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5 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:06 AM

Back when I used to collect shiners in new york I was great at ID's. Goldens were spade shaped, commons rounder and shine blue, fatheads had a distinctive head shape and blackish males, longnose and blacknose dace were very distinctive, creek chubs were brownish, etc. It seems I am losing this ability, in part due to smaller shiners looking alot alike and often not having an adult body/face shape. This is particularly annoying as my quest is to find a spottail and a silvery minnow on the connecticut river and tributaries.

I have two shiners to ID. The first I got from above the Vernon dam 2 weeks ago. It has a stripe but matches no striped shiner species I can think of. My first thought was maybe a fallfish but the pointy face has me wondering if maybe it is a young golden before it developes its diamond shape.

I'll make another post to this thread for the second as I am not sure how many pics a post can hold.

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#2 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:11 AM

This minnow I found below the Vernon Dam last week. Could this be the elusive spottail I seek? I have been fooled before (young fallfish often have spot tails).

Posted Image

it lost its stripe out of the water and reflected strongly blue like a common shiner does. Sadly the blue didn't come out well in the photo.

Posted Image

placed in a phototank it quickly regained its stripe.

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#3 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 30 July 2011 - 08:49 AM

By spottail... do you mean Notropis hudsonius?

If so, I would preface my comment by saying that some folks here have said that this far ranging minnow seems to be rather variable across its range... but... but then I would say anyway that I think the third and fourth picture down look a good bit like N. hudsonius when I see them down here... and I also would agree that they often show a strong blueish sheen in life. The other thing that I look for when identifying them (not the only trait, but one that I do notice in your pics) is the sort of double dashed line that dips down somewhat before returning to the mid line of the fish... down here at lest when I see that and the strong blueish sheen, I start thinking N.hudsonius ...

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#4 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 05:43 PM

Yes, you've finally got N.hudsonius! However, it looks like he got a bit over-handled so watch out for infections that may set in, especially Flexibacter. And I second Michael's ID characters for hudsonius.

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#5 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 09:45 PM

Yes, you've finally got N.hudsonius! However, it looks like he got a bit over-handled so watch out for infections that may set in, especially Flexibacter. And I second Michael's ID characters for hudsonius.

I returned him at the sight of capture.

Thanks for the ID, I am glad I got one of my goal species. Any idea of the other shiner?

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#6 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 31 July 2011 - 11:39 AM

Yes, you've finally got N.hudsonius! However, it looks like he got a bit over-handled so watch out for infections that may set in, especially Flexibacter. And I second Michael's ID characters for hudsonius.

One comment on "over-handled"... I have noticed that hudsonius seem to be one of those fishes that toss scales rather easily... I mean if you get N. lutipinnis or most Cyprinella in a seine (as I did recently) and you lay the seine on the bank, they are fine, they of course flip around a lot, but if you are just normally cautious and a little bit concerned about then getting bakc into the water... they are all fine and look good too... even the Hybopsis are not too bad... but the hudsonius seem to loose those bright blue sivery scales, very easily... you have to be extra careful with them...

And on a totally different characteristic, I have only tried to bring them home once to try in the aquarium and they were terrible jumpers... I mean, jumped out fo the cooler while acclimating overnight... even with the lid 80% closed. So a word of caution there as well.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin