african pompano in the US?

The Biomes Aquarium in Rhode Island recently caught an African Pompano. Since they usually sample locally I assume it was from Rhode island. It's mentioned on their facebook page. http://www.facebook....nc/125121850694

I doubt it is established if it is a stray. (I have only heard of two cases of non human introduced strays establishing populations, both were birds. That seems to be a rare event).

Interesting tidbit on how it is presumed that it got there. I've read of this happening with fish before, so I realize it happens, but, wow, what a ride! Kind of makes me curious though, throughout the course of natural history, how often has storm transportation played a roll in the introduction of different fishes? It makes me think of the thread we have going about "Niche species similarity different sides of the world, same fish" @ http://forum.nanfa.o...3100#entry93100
Just how often has storm transportation been involved in this. I guess we can't know for certain, but it's making me think about it.

I guess I should have posted this reply in that section. Sorry, it's amazing how everything relates when you think about it enough though.

Steve.

African Pompano are popular sport fish in south Florida and the Bahamas, and not uncommon. Very good eating, too. Not that it didn't come all the way across the Atlantic, but it only had to go north along the US coast. Other Atlantic species wander north, or south from time to time.

Kind of makes me curious though, throughout the course of natural history, how often has storm transportation played a roll in the introduction of different fishes? It makes me think of the thread we have going about "Niche species similarity different sides of the world, same fish" @ http://forum.nanfa.o...3100#entry93100
Just how often has storm transportation been involved in this. I guess we can't know for certain, but it's making me think about it.

Elassoma gilberti and Aphanius mento are not even remotely related. Elassoma are a perciformes and Aphanius are a cyprinodontoidei. Their physical similarities are not because one was transplanted and relocated to the other location, but instead due to living for long periods of time in the same slack water, high vegetation niche.

Taxonomies:
http://www.itis.gov/...ch_value=647066
http://www.itis.gov/...ch_value=168171

I am curious about how frequently fish species get blown from Africa to North America by a hurricane. Are the coastal species along the North American shore the same as those found along Africa's and Europe's shores?

Edited by EricaWieser, 04 October 2011 - 12:41 PM.

"Are the coastal species along the North American shore the same as those found along Africa's and Europe's shores?" No, not originally, although we've sent the mumichog, Fundulus heteroclitus, to Iberia, and the very common green crab is an introduction 100 years ago from Europe. The near-shore species are much more similar though, with species like cod and pollock.

Actually, there are a lot of coastal species that are found in oceans around the world. While in some cases, they have been separated into their own species, many, such as the african pompano, are a single species around the world. Lots of different sharks are the same worldwide as well. Not only in the oceans, northern pike are all Esox lucius around the world, as is the burbot, Lota lota. At least last time I looked. These things change with alarming frequency. Not so long ago, we classified the bonefish in a single species. Now, there are at least three different species around the world, although I couldn't tell you what the differences are.

One thing that is interesting about ocean species is they sometimes have pelagic offspring, which ride ocean currents prior to settling down as young adults near the coasts. Since we seem in a philosophical mood, as a parent of a college student on study abroad, I see some symmetry.

The african pompano is the common name for Alectis ciliaris, a type of jack that was first classified near the African coast, hence the common name. Their young are often sold as "Treadfin" in the aquarium trade. Its also not a pompano, which is another group of jacks also prized for the table. They are more similar to a group known as trevally.

Also, Steve was correct: Elassoma gilberti and Aphanius mento are related, albeit distantly. Both belong to the same superorder, Acanthopterygii. That is not all that close, but there is some discussion that Elassoma are more closely related to sticklebacks than sunfish.

Which makes me agree again with Steve, isn't this stuff amazing?

African Pompano are common of North Carolina.

Both the young and the adults.

Also, Steve was correct: Elassoma gilberti and Aphanius mento are related, albeit distantly. Both belong to the same superorder, Acanthopterygii. That is not all that close, but there is some discussion that Elassoma are more closely related to sticklebacks than sunfish.

Elassoma gilberti are more closely related to sunfish than sticklebacks. Elassoma and sunfish are both of the order perciformes. Sticklebacks are of the order gasterosteiformes, and Aphanius mento are of the order cyprinodontiformes. Here's the taxonomy from ITIS standard report page.

Aphanius mento:
Superorder Acanthopterygii
Order Cyprinodontiformes Berg, 1940 -- cyprinodontes, cyprinodontiforms, cyprinodonts, killifishes
Suborder Cyprinodontoidei -- cyprinodontoids
Family Cyprinodontidae Gill, 1865 -- cachorritos, cyprinodontes, cyprinodontids, killifishes, pupfishes, toothcarps
Subfamily Cyprinodontinae Gill, 1865 -- cyprinodontines
Tribe Orestiini Bleeker, 1860
Genus Aphanius Nardo, 1827
Species Aphanius mento (Heckel, 1843)

Elassoma zonatum (gilberti not yet on record):
Superorder Acanthopterygii
Order Perciformes -- perch-like fishes
Suborder Elassomatoidei
Family Elassomatidae -- crapets-pygmées, pygmy sunfishes, solecitos
Genus Elassoma Jordan, 1877 -- pygmy sunfishes
Species Elassoma zonatum Jordan, 1877 -- banded pygmy sunfish

Stickleback:
Superorder Acanthopterygii
Order Gasterosteiformes -- pipefishes, sticklebacks
Suborder Gasterosteoidei
Family Gasterosteidae -- épinoches, espinochos, sticklebacks
Genus Apeltes DeKay, 1842 -- fourspine sticklebacks
Species Apeltes quadracus (Mitchill, 1815) -- bloody stickleback, épinoche à quatre épines, fourspine stickleback

Green sunfish:
Superorder Acanthopterygii
Order Perciformes -- perch-like fishes
Suborder Percoidei
Family Centrarchidae -- achigans et crapets, lobinas, sunfishes
Genus Lepomis Rafinesque, 1819 -- common sunfishes, eared sunfishes
Species Lepomis cyanellus Rafinesque, 1819 -- green sunfish, pez sol

Source links:
http://www.itis.gov/...ch_value=647066
http://www.itis.gov/...ch_value=166397
http://www.itis.gov/...ch_value=168171
http://www.itis.gov/...ch_value=168132

Edited by EricaWieser, 04 October 2011 - 05:01 PM.

The consensus opinion at the moment is that no one is clear to whom the Elassomatidae are most closely related. Several very different hypotheses can be supported by pretty much the same evidence.

Folks seem to be confused by the florida pompano which a native inshore species and the african pompano which is a whole nuther animal with worldwide tropical distribution. Like many strays, it's usually eddies breaking off the Gulf Stream, aided by a southwest wind that brings them inshore. It doesn't take a big storm and is not at all uncommon at this time of year.
The african pompano is not an uncommon stray in new england. I once saw one drift by in the current while I stood on a bridge over an inlet. As an avid collector of tropical strays, I very seriously considered jumping off the bridge to get it - not kidding. If my nets were handy I would have.

Mike,

Therein lies the issue with common names. They work well most of the time, but sometimes they are quite misleading.

How big are the ones that you see in New England? The young African Pompano I have seen are quite spectacular. Worth jumping in the water for.

Erica, I wasn't trying to pick a fight. Taxonomy is not a process of absolutes. I used the Elassomatidae/Gasterosteoidae example to illustrate that the scientific community has room to adjust to new thoughts. Given your expertise with the family, I thought you would be interested in the idea that they could be more closely related to sticklebacks that previously believed. We could find out, I suppose, that sticklebacks are more closely related to Centrarchids than previously thought.

This is, to me, the cool stuff. How this whole big group of animals, the fishes, are related to each other.

I admit this is a good case for the anti-common name folks. I generally like to stick to common names because I SO love to annoy stuck up academic types. 10,000 scientists can give you the scientific name for that species but maybe 20 know they ever show up in New England and at best 2 have ever seen one here. I gotta have sumpthin over them, don't eye? haha
Seriously, I generally spout from memory without doing the WIKI thing and rarely can remember the scientific name of such an obscure species. I let those that are interested hit the Google key.

The ones that show up in New England, like all tropical strays [as opposed to migrants], are post larval juvies. The one I saw had a body size of a silver dollar with maybe 3 or 4 inch threads off the fins.

I like your approach to scientific names. I would prefer to use common names, but at times the Latin is necessary.

Good luck with your adventures.

Several very different hypotheses can be supported by pretty much the same evidence.

And herein lies the frustrating truth and the overwhelming beauty of so many of the topics we enjoy discussing.

I used to love putting Pennant Trevallies ( African Pomps ) on display at the Gulfarium. We'd get a couple every year that people would catch and bring us because they thought they had caught some sort of weird mutant. ( the finnage is very peculiar and spectacular ) Kinda hard to keep, though, being right up there with Lookdowns and Skipjacks in difficulty.