Pro line "Complete" seems to do the job

I just added 100 bluegill males to a 500 gallon RAS system that run up to 6 oz. and had to temporarily isolate the biofilter from the tank. This was due to the fact that the water the fish came out of (cage in a pond) was much colder than the inside tank water and I decided to drop the tank water from 70 F. to 50 F. so the fish would not go into shock. It required twelve 10 pound bags of ice to drop the temp to 50 F.!

Anyway, in the meantime as the water in the fish tank warms back up to 70 F. I added a product known as Proline Complete from Aquatic Ecosystems which is identical to Amquel, and was assured it will have no ill effect on the biofilter when I hook it back up to the system. I tested ammonia and nitrites a few hours after adding the fish and both read zip with my salicylate tests.

The fish were quickly dipped in a 3 percent saltwater solution to implode any external parasites and the tank water has a strength of 0.2 percent (2 ppt, 2000 ppm, 2 g/l) which has worked well for me in the past. Eventually I will allow the salt to dilute by water changes to allow me to hook up the system to plants to make it an aquaponic system.

Have any of you used this product or a similar product. Other than in this instance I thought it might be something to have around for emergencies.

Thoughts?

Edited by az9, 12 November 2011 - 07:36 AM.

I'm sorry, I don't have any experience with proline or amquel, but I am interested in how it worked out now that you're a couple of days or more into it. Did the ammonia and nitrite continue to read 0? At what point did you hook the biofilter back up? Were the bacteria in the filter able to survive while it was isolated? Sorry for so many questions, but every since I saw the picture of your system and the RBC I just find it fascinating. Thanks.

Steve.

I'm sorry, I don't have any experience with proline or amquel, but I am interested in how it worked out now that you're a couple of days or more into it. Did the ammonia and nitrite continue to read 0? At what point did you hook the biofilter back up? Were the bacteria in the filter able to survive while it was isolated? Sorry for so many questions, but every since I saw the picture of your system and the RBC I just find it fascinating. Thanks.

Steve.

Steve,

After about 12 hours the ammonia climbed up to 0.5 ppm and but nitrites stayed at zip. I added more (1 tablespoon per 100 gallons and the ammonia went back down to zero and nitrites stayed at zero. Then about 12 hours later nitrites started rising to about 0.5 ppm but by adding the product it went back to zero. I've added the Proline "Complete" a couple more times in a couple of days with the last edition last night, and this morning both ammonia and nitrites were zero. So I have not added any since. This evening ammonia is zero and nitrites seem to be between 0.0 and 0.25. My thinking is the biofilter is starting to adapt to the fish load. I did do a 20 percent water change today (two 55 gallon drums worth.)

I'm going to try and use as little product as possible to allow the biofilter to adapt fully to the fish load.

As far as the biofilter I hooked it back up once the fish tank water temp equaled (actually exceeded by three degrees) the biofilter tank water temp. I have no doubt the biofilter survived the two days. It takes a lot more than that for the bacteria to perish. They had water, oxygen and I'm sure were eager for food when it came.

One thing about bluegills (all centrarchids) is they are very tolerant of nitrites. As long as the nitrites don't get to high I'm not concerned if it takes a little time for them to drop to zero. I also have the salt in the water as extra insurance against brown blood disease.

BTW I have been feeding them as I believe it's imperative one gets them feeding as soon as possible in a new stressful environment. They aren't feeding optimally yet but some. IN the past I've found it takes several days for the fish to calm down and accept their environment. I had one situation with trout in a pond where it took 2 weeks for them to feed normally!

Edited by az9, 15 November 2011 - 09:20 PM.

This morning TAN was zero but nitrites had jumped to 1.0. I added more the Proline Complete to keep the nitrites down and did a 10 percent water change and cleaned out the clarifier. It appears due to the sudden fish load the tank has to undergo a mini cycle, if you will, and the next step is an increase in nitrobacters and nitrates. At least that makes sense to me.

Before I have added a very small fish load of fry or fingerlings and the biofilter would adapt as the biomass increased. In this case after cycling the biofilter I dumped in about 30 lbs. of fish. However density is not too great for an RAS at 0.10 lbs. per gallon.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Edited by az9, 16 November 2011 - 03:24 PM.

A few questions AZ:

1. Does Proline Complete contain live bacteria, or is it just enzymes that need to be replaced daily?

2. When you disconnected the filter, is that because the temp drop from 70 to 50 would have harmed the nitrifying bacteria? How much of a sudden temp change up or down can they safely handle? Would acclimating them from 70 to 50 over a couple hours have worked?

3. You said that 2 days without ammonia should not have harmed filter bacteria. Just how long does it take for a well-stocked biofilter to lose effectiveness (at room temp, say 70 F) when the ammonia source is removed? And how long to recover when the fish load is restored?

To an aquarium hobbyist, a pound of fish per 10 gal sounds pretty dense!

Edited by gerald, 16 November 2011 - 04:17 PM.

A few questions AZ:
1. Does Proline Complete contain live bacteria, or is it just enzymes that need to be replaced daily?

No live bacteria; it's a chemical thing. What it is exactly is not given so it must be a proprietary thing. It does have a slight sulfur odor to it when you open the jar. The form I have is in a powder.

2. When you disconnected the filter, is that because the temp drop from 70 to 50 would have harmed the nitrifying bacteria?

Yes, bacteria just like fish are sensitive to sudden changes as in water temp, a quick change in salinity etc. Just like fish they can go in a "shock" state.

How much of a sudden temp change up or down can they safely handle? Would acclimating them from 70 to 50 over a couple hours have worked?

Don't know. All I know is it took me several weeks to cycle the tank and I did not want to take any chance. I'm reading a good text on RAS' right now, which may have some of the answers.

3. You said that 2 days without ammonia should not have harmed filter bacteria. Just how long does it take for a well-stocked biofilter to lose effectiveness (at room temp, say 70 F) when the ammonia source is removed?

Don't know.

And how long to recover when the fish load is restored?

Don't know for sure, but the ammonia is being oxidized so apparently the nitrosomonas (and other species) apparently was not effected or it didn't take them long to get back in mode. Apparently the nitrobactors (and other species) are lagging a little behind. But that seems par for the course with them.

To an aquarium hobbyist, a pound of fish per 10 gal sounds pretty dense!

In very intense commercial systems it gets much higher. Up to 1 lb. per gallon or even higher depending on the species! Of course we are talking 10 percent water changes per day, Ozone, ultraviolet radiation etc. etc. I'm avoiding the latter options in my small scale system.

Surprisingly in commercial systems once you get to .25 pounds per gallon you get a better feeding response due to competition and territorial behavior breaks down. Higher densities of fish make a better self cleaning tank as the fish keep the solids off the bottom where they are taken in by outflow pipe (in my case a utube siphon) and less so by the center drain.

Edited by az9, 17 November 2011 - 06:09 AM.

I'm trying to envision forty 1/2-lb bluegills in a 20 gal aquarium.
That would makes the 5 for $1 goldfish tank at PetSmart look virtually empty.

In very intense commercial systems it gets much higher. Up to 1 lb. per gallon or even higher depending on the species! Of course we are talking 10 percent water changes per day, Ozone, ultraviolet radiation etc.

I'm trying to envision forty 1/2-lb bluegills in a 20 gal aquarium.
That would makes the 5 for $1 goldfish tank at PetSmart look virtually empty.

Gerald,

Hard to believe but true. The problem is the high initial capital costs of commericial systems (The biggest yellow perch farm in the world is in my state and has invested 25 million so far) and the utility costs not including labor etc. To make a profit they have to push their systems to the limit.