Edited by exasperatus2002, 05 December 2011 - 02:08 PM.
late season collecting query
Started by
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, Dec 05 2011 01:52 PM
40 replies to this topic
#1
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Posted 05 December 2011 - 01:52 PM
I was going to wait till spring & start my 1st native tank. I've got that itch and Im really tempted to go back to one spot Dave & I sampled & try a local darter. Is it to late in the season to try to drip acclimate? My tank is in the mid 60's. Also is this a Johny darter or tesselated darter? Lehigh cnty PA. All 3 are supposed to be found at this collection point. I think it was a johny but wanted to double check. Also does anyone have any experience with them?
#4
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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:20 PM
Not sure where you are getting your info from, but johnny darters aren't found in the Susquehanna drainage, just tessellated.
Im in the delaware drainage not the susquehanna. I was emailed a list of species for the jordan & little lehigh creeks from the PA fish commission. The fish I had was collected at the confluence of these two streams about 2 miles from where the little lehigh flows into the lehigh river which then flows to the delaware river. Heres the lists I was emailed.
Table 1. Fish collected from Jordan Creek between lower river mile of 0, and upper river mile of 30. A total of 17 site(s) (n) used in this report with site collection dates between 9/7/1976 and 5/4/2009.
Common name Scientific name
American Eel Anguilla rostrata
Banded Killifish Fundulus diaphanus
Blacknose Dace Rhinichthys atratulus
Bluegill Lepomis macrochirus
Bluntnose Minnow Pimephales notatus
Brown Bullhead Ameiurus nebulosus
Brown Trout Salmo trutta
Comely Shiner Notropis amoenus
Common Carp Cyprinus carpio
Common Shiner Luxilus cornutus
Creek Chub Semotilus atromaculatus
Creek Chubsucker Erimyzon oblongus
Cutlips Minnow Exoglossum maxillingua
Fallfish Semotilus corporalis
Golden Shiner Notemigonus crysoleucas
Goldfish Carassius auratus
Green Sunfish Lepomis cyanellus
Johnny Darter Etheostoma nigrum
Largemouth Bass Micropterus salmoides
Longnose Dace Rhinichthys cataractae
Margined Madtom Noturus insignis
Pumpkinseed Lepomis gibbosus
Rainbow Trout Oncorhynchus mykiss
Rainbow Trout - Hatchery Oncorhynchus mykiss
Redbreast Sunfish Lepomis auritus
Redfin Pickerel Esox americanus
Rock Bass Ambloplites rupestris
Satinfin Shiner Cyprinella analostana
Sea Lamprey Petromyzon marinus
Slimy Sculpin Cottus cognatus
Smallmouth Bass Micropterus dolomieu
Spottail Shiner Notropis hudsonius
Stonecat Noturus flavus
Tessellated Darter Etheostoma olmstedi
White Sucker Catostomus commersonii
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Table 1. Fish collected from Little Lehigh Creek between lower river mile of 0, and upper river mile of 25. A total of 79 site(s) (n) used in this report with site collection dates between 9/6/1977 and 7/21/2010.
Common name Scientific name
American Eel Anguilla rostrata
Banded Killifish Fundulus diaphanus
Blacknose Dace Rhinichthys atratulus
Bluegill Lepomis macrochirus
Bluntnose Minnow Pimephales notatus
Brook Trout Salvelinus fontinalis
Brook Trout - Hatchery Salvelinus fontinalis
Brown Bullhead Ameiurus nebulosus
Brown Trout Salmo trutta
Brown Trout - Hatchery Salmo trutta
Chain Pickerel Esox niger
Comely Shiner Notropis amoenus
Common Carp Cyprinus carpio
Common Shiner Luxilus cornutus
Creek Chub Semotilus atromaculatus
Creek Chubsucker Erimyzon oblongus
Cutlips Minnow Exoglossum maxillingua
Fallfish Semotilus corporalis
Fantail Darter Etheostoma flabellare
Fourspine Stickleback Apeltes quadracus
Golden Shiner Notemigonus crysoleucas
Goldfish Carassius auratus
Green Sunfish Lepomis cyanellus
Johnny Darter Etheostoma nigrum
Largemouth Bass Micropterus salmoides
Longnose Dace Rhinichthys cataractae
Margined Madtom Noturus insignis
Pumpkinseed Lepomis gibbosus
Rainbow Trout Oncorhynchus mykiss
Rainbow Trout - Golden Oncorhynchus mykiss
Rainbow Trout - Hatchery Oncorhynchus mykiss
Redbreast Sunfish Lepomis auritus
Redfin Pickerel Esox americanus
Rock Bass Ambloplites rupestris
Satinfin Shiner Cyprinella analostana
Sculpin Species Cottus
Shield Darter Percina peltata
Slimy Sculpin Cottus cognatus
Spotfin Shiner Cyprinella spiloptera
Spottail Shiner Notropis hudsonius
Swallowtail Shiner Notropis procne
Tessellated Darter Etheostoma olmstedi
White Sucker Catostomus commersonii
#7
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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:58 PM
I hope you wore waders man. that water was cold back in the summer.
Yes I have hip boots. They were in the shallow area under that bridge with all the spiney cheeked crays. Is it to late in the season to try it?
#9
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:26 AM
I realize that might have come from three decades of agency reports, but not all agencies over time have done the best job at assuring correct ID's of non-game fish. Johnny darters do not inhabit the Atlantic side of the continental divide, except for a handful of basins in southern VA and NC. I would probably also call BS on the stonecat record.
#11
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 10:27 AM
You should be fine collecting, just take your time acclimating them.Did you see any crayfish? They should be hibernating for the most part.
I havent gone yet. Im kicking around the idea but wanted everyones opinion on it. I didnt want to kill them off trying to acclimate them since its a big difference in temps right now.
#12
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 10:55 AM
Now is the best time to collect fish imho, if water is still open. It's been long enough from summer stress that parasite numbers are way down, the fish are comfortable and their metabolisms have slowed.
I bring them home and place them by the back door or attached garage, stepping them into the house and allowing them to warm over a couple days. If you do it in a cooler, you can bring home less water. More if you just use a bucket (lids are very helpful devices). In either case, I drill a hole in the lid (cooler or bucket) and run airline in.
I also always keep conditioned "live sand" in my coolers, which will give them both thermal and biological stability.
Happy Hunting!
Todd
I bring them home and place them by the back door or attached garage, stepping them into the house and allowing them to warm over a couple days. If you do it in a cooler, you can bring home less water. More if you just use a bucket (lids are very helpful devices). In either case, I drill a hole in the lid (cooler or bucket) and run airline in.
I also always keep conditioned "live sand" in my coolers, which will give them both thermal and biological stability.
Happy Hunting!
Todd
#13
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:18 AM
Todd is right. If you can find the fish, now is the best time. They get stressed in the spring/summer and tend to have issues when transported. The only problem I've found is identifying some of them. It is hard enough identifying silvery minnows during the spring/summer unless you get a colored up male but they all look the same in the winter. A few minutes in a dark bucket though usually helps.
#14
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:22 AM
I realize that might have come from three decades of agency reports, but not all agencies over time have done the best job at assuring correct ID's of non-game fish. Johnny darters do not inhabit the Atlantic side of the continental divide, except for a handful of basins in southern VA and NC. I would probably also call BS on the stonecat record.
I've seen those Johnny darters! And I've sampled large margined madtoms that may be mistaken for stonecats.
#15
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 12:09 PM
I've seen those Johnny darters! And I've sampled large margined madtoms that may be mistaken for stonecats.
Drew, did you happen to take any photos of those fish? My friend at NAS would be interested to see this and might be an interesting species pair for me to examine, since their niche should be conserved, and they would be in direct competition. But I'm not driving over there until there's some stronger evidence in hand (no offense
)Todd
#16
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 12:20 PM
You can use ammonia test strips to monitor the concentration of ammonia in the holding bucket during the days you're letting the temperature equilibrate. The longest I try to keep fish in a holding container during acclimation is half a day so that ammonia buildup isn't much of an issue. But I've never acclimated a fish from 40 to 60 degrees; that might indeed take longer. So maybe an ammonia test strip would be helpful.
By the way if you have a spare airline tube and an extra valve, this acclimation technique is very easy: youtube.com/watch?v=ZSnJjTEjWyU
That method is compatible with the cooler method that farmertodd mentioned, which is a really good idea. Sticking the acclimation container inside a cooler or a styrofoam box would slow temperature equilibration and increase the fish's odds for survival.
By the way if you have a spare airline tube and an extra valve, this acclimation technique is very easy: youtube.com/watch?v=ZSnJjTEjWyU
That method is compatible with the cooler method that farmertodd mentioned, which is a really good idea. Sticking the acclimation container inside a cooler or a styrofoam box would slow temperature equilibration and increase the fish's odds for survival.
#17
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 12:30 PM
Drew, did you happen to take any photos of those fish? My friend at NAS would be interested to see this and might be an interesting species pair for me to examine, since their niche should be conserved, and they would be in direct competition. But I'm not driving over there until there's some stronger evidence in hand (no offense
Todd
I do not know if we photo'd those or not. Depending on where you went during the convention, you should have seen them.
#19
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 02:04 PM
Correct. NO Johnny's in the Susky. Now if you're still interested in the interaction between native and non-native darters, bandeds have had documented effects on tessellateds in the Susquehanna and I would hypothesize greensides have also had some influence on benthic fish resource use. I don't think you'd get your direct competition though among closely related species. I can't remember what directions the current winds suggest for the status (native v. non) of greenside and rainbow in the Potomac. I think it's pretty well evident that roanoke darters and their rapid expansion have likely had effects on native darters in the respective VA basins they were introducted.
#20
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Posted 06 December 2011 - 02:10 PM
Another consideration in the whole cooler / airline set up... the airline is pumping air of a certain temperature into the water... so it is actually warming the water slowly too... at least as long as the air is warmer than the water.
I have used this in the way Todd mentioned... collected fish into a cooler and transported them home... connected them to an airline in the basement and therefore warmed the collection water... bringing it closer to the tank water.
I have used this in the way Todd mentioned... collected fish into a cooler and transported them home... connected them to an airline in the basement and therefore warmed the collection water... bringing it closer to the tank water.
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