Hello all I'm new to the forum. I am not new to freshwater fish keeping but I will be new to native fish keeping.

I'm working on a 15 gallon for my office. I want to do NC native fish.

I'm leaning towards a low current planted setup since I have already collected some plants and plan to get more.

Is a 15 gallon too small for bluespotted sunfish or blackbanded sunfish? If it isn't too small what other fish could I have in the tank or should I do species only?

If a 15 gallon is too small for those, I might do pygmy sunfish or do higher current with shiners and daces.

Thanks for the help!

That size tank will work well with a few of the Enneacanthus sunfishes. I would also suggest lined topminnows and swamp or sawcheek darters to round out the tank. All of these species are found together in NC streams and are easy to maintain. Be careful with how you go about acquiring the Enneacanthus though since NC considers all species of sunfish game fish thus making it illegal to collect them without the proper permit.

That size tank will work well with a few of the Enneacanthus sunfishes. I would also suggest lined topminnows and swamp or sawcheek darters to round out the tank. All of these species are found together in NC streams and are easy to maintain. Be careful with how you go about acquiring the Enneacanthus though since NC considers all species of sunfish game fish thus making it illegal to collect them without the proper permit.

Thanks for the reply Dustin

I was thinking swamp darters might work and they would provide some activity for the bottom of the tank. When you say "lined topminnows" are referring the the specific species,Fundulus lineolatus, or would other types of minnows work as dither fish?

If I go on a organized collecting trip with someone who has the proper permits can I take some of the sunfish we collect home with me? Is it illegal for me to purchase or be given sunfish from someone who collected with the proper permits?

I was specifically referring to Fundulus lineolatus. I like this fish since it is common in that area and really hugs the surface giving the tank some depth. They are also calm and easy to care for. Most of the minnows(shiners) in your area will move around constantly and this tends to make the sunfish nervous in my experience. They also like at least a little current.

Your second question may be best answered by Gerald on Fritz but it is my understanding that you are allowed to keep these fish if you are on an organized collecting trip that is covered under a permit. You are also allowed to keep these fish if they are purchased and you maintain proof of purchase. You are only not allowed to collect them yourself without a permit that extends past a regular fishing license.

If I go on a organized collecting trip with someone who has the proper permits can I take some of the sunfish we collect home with me? Is it illegal for me to purchase or be given sunfish from someone who collected with the proper permits?

Just buy whatever fishing license or permit you need for yourself so you don't have to worry about it. There are a few here that I could find that seem to apply to you. Probably the third one is most applicable, but here's all three for you to read.
If it were me I'd buy both a fishing license and that "special inland fishing devices" 'cause I like to play it safe.

$5 and ten days:
"Inland Fishing 10-Day (basic)
Statewide inland fishing during the 10-day period specified on the license. Includes fishing in joint waters. It does not include fishing in coastal waters."

$15 and the whole year:
"Inland Fishing (basic)
Statewide inland fishing during a license term. Includes fishing in joint waters. It does not include fishing in coastal waters"

$10:
"Special Inland Fishing Devices (basic/noncommercial)
Authorizes the taking of nongame fish from inland waters (does not include joint and coastal waters) during designated seasons with nets, traps, gigs, reels, spear guns, baskets, bow and arrow, and any other authorized special fishing device. Includes the sale of these nongame fish. Taking of nongame fishes with bow and arrow is authorized under any of the licenses providing basic hunting or inland fishing privileges. This license is valid when no more than three special fishing devices are used."

Source: http://www.ncwildlif...ntLicenses.aspx

You've got to catch sunfish with a hook and line by law, but as long as you don't catch more than 12 redbreast sunfish or more than 30 in total sunfish in a day, you're fine.
Source: http://www.ncwildlif...rmWaterFish.pdf

Get out there and have some fun catching yourself some bluespotted/blackbanded sunfish. Try to ID them in the field well, so you don't accidentally take home a juvenile of a species that'll grow large enough to eat all your other fish
By the way, juveniles acclimate better to the home aquarium than adults. Read this for more info: http://www.nanfa.org...s/acbspot.shtml

Edited by EricaWieser, 03 January 2012 - 03:50 PM.

I was specifically referring to Fundulus lineolatus. I like this fish since it is common in that area and really hugs the surface giving the tank some depth. They are also calm and easy to care for. Most of the minnows(shiners) in your area will move around constantly and this tends to make the sunfish nervous in my experience. They also like at least a little current.

Your second question may be best answered by Gerald on Fritz but it is my understanding that you are allowed to keep these fish if you are on an organized collecting trip that is covered under a permit. You are also allowed to keep these fish if they are purchased and you maintain proof of purchase. You are only not allowed to collect them yourself without a permit that extends past a regular fishing license.

That was my understanding on the collecting as well but I'll wait for Gerald or Fritz to reply.

That's for the advice and input on the minnows, I wouldn't want the sunfish to be spooked.

How many bluespotted or blackbanded sunfish do you think I can comfortably have in a 15 with the topminnows and swamp darters?
Would it be a bad idea to mix bluespotted and blackbanded in the same 15 gallon tank?

Just buy a fishing license for yourself so you don't have to worry about it. They're $5 for a 10 day fishing license and $15 for a whole year.
Sources: http://www.ncwildlif...ntLicenses.aspx and http://www.ncwildlif...ntLicenses.aspx

You've got to catch sunfish with a hook and line by law, but as long as you don't catch more than 12 redbreast sunfish or more than 30 in total sunfish in a day, you're fine.
Source: http://www.ncwildlif...rmWaterFish.pdf

Get out there and have some fun catching yourself some bluespotted/blackbanded sunfish. Try to ID them in the field well, so you don't accidentally take home a juvenile of a species that'll grow large enough to eat all your other fish

By the way, juveniles acclimate better to the home aquarium than adults. Read this for more info: http://www.nanfa.org...s/acbspot.shtml

I haven't fished in like 17 years, and that was saltwater fishing. If I go this route will the fishing license cover me or is there some other special permit I would need. When and where would I need to go fishing to catch bluespotted or blackbanded sunfish? Pretty sure they aren't in my area of the Catawba River.

I think you could easily keep 6 or so sunfish in the tank. You can definitely keep both species but you will find the the bluespots are not as aggressive at feeding time as the blackbandeds so you will want to be sure they get some food. They are also more picky about food. If you go with just lined topminnow, blackbanded and sawcheek darter, they will all take freeze dried blood worms happily. Bluespots and swamp darters seem to prefer frozen or live foods but they will come around to FD foods as well.

While I agree with the gist of what Erica said, especially about getting out in the water for yourself and enjoying the habitats, there are a few things that we see slightly differently. She is correct that you may keep sunfish caught on hook and line but your chances of getting Enneacanthus with hook and like are not good unless you have some very tiny hooks and some even tinier bait. I also think that subadults to adult Enneacanthus adapt to tak life better. They seem scrappier and more willing to do what they must to make it while juveniles tend to fade if not pampered. Again, this is just in my experience and specifically in regards to Enneacanthus.

I haven't fished in like 17 years, and that was saltwater fishing. If I go this route will the fishing license cover me or is there some other special permit I would need. When and where would I need to go fishing to catch bluespotted or blackbanded sunfish? Pretty sure they aren't in my area of the Catawba River.

They are all around the Rockingham/Fayetteville area.

I found a quote from Fritz that he said back when I was asking about keeping fish when I initially moved to North Carolina.

Topic: http://forum.nanfa.o...north-carolina/

Erica:

You do not need any type of license to keep native fish (or non-native for that matter)in your home in North Carolina. If you want to go and collect local NC fish, then you will need to get a fishing license or go with Gerald or myself who have scientific collecting permits.

Fritz

They are all around the Rockingham/Fayetteville area.

Sounds like my best bet might be getting some on a organized trip or from someone else who collected them.

Know of anyone who breeds these fish or collects frequently around my area? I know of a couple websites that sale them (Zimmerman and Jonahs)

Gerald mentioned a Raleigh field trip in Feb over on CarolinaFishTalk but it's on a Friday and I work M-F.

If I go this route will the fishing license cover me or is there some other special permit I would need.

I edited my initial post to answer that, go back and look. There's a year long fishing license, $15, a ten day fishing license, $5, and a "Special Inland Fishing Devices", $10. If it were me I'd buy the annual one and the "Special Inland Fishing Devices". Maybe you need more, maybe you don't need both. The name of those three permits is the most I could learn from the state's website.

When and where would I need to go fishing to catch bluespotted or blackbanded sunfish?

Here, I'll attach the excel file from http://ncdenr.gov/we.../bau/nativefish
I've been recommending this file for a while now as a collecting guide but it's such a pain in the behind to find a valid link that I've finally just started hosting the thing myself. Grarararar.
 freshwater fish of north carolina.xls   102.5KB   73 downloads

Would it be a bad idea to mix bluespotted and blackbanded in the same 15 gallon tank?

I'd pick just one species if it were me. More chance they'd breed.

I edited my initial post to answer that, go back and look. There's a year long fishing license, $15, a ten day fishing license, $5, and a "Special Inland Fishing Devices", $10. If it were me I'd buy the annual one and the "Special Inland Fishing Devices". Maybe you need more, maybe you don't need both. The name of those three permits is the most I could learn from the state's website.


Here, I'll attach the excel file from http://ncdenr.gov/we.../bau/nativefish
I've been recommending this file for a while now as a collecting guide but it's such a pain in the behind to find a valid link that I've finally just started hosting the thing myself. Grarararar.
 freshwater fish of north carolina.xls   102.5KB   73 downloads

Oh yeh I have seen that file I have actually downloaded it and edited it several times to show various things like only Catawba River fish and only smaller sized fish. Thanks for the link though. It doesn't tell you which parts of the basin the fish are in though or if a fish is listed does that mean it can be found anywhere in that basin?

While I agree with the gist of what Erica said, especially about getting out in the water for yourself and enjoying the habitats, there are a few things that we see slightly differently. She is correct that you may keep sunfish caught on hook and line but your chances of getting Enneacanthus with hook and like are not good unless you have some very tiny hooks and some even tinier bait.

This is true. I've recently found myself asking the staff at the sporting goods store questions like, "Just how small is this smallest hook you have?" and other unusual things. But when the only legal way to take home a sunfish is rod and reel, you gotta do what you gotta do. It's sad. And I'm pretty sure they think I'm crazy.

Oh yeh I have seen that file I have actually downloaded it and edited it several times to show various things like only Catawba River fish and only smaller sized fish. Thanks for the link though. It doesn't tell you which parts of the basin the fish are in though or if a fish is listed does that mean it can be found anywhere in that basin?

Just that it's in the basin, unfortunately. They don't name specific sites for the fish's protection. But knowing the basin is a good place to start. If you're looking in the right basin and in the right type of habitat, you'll find the fish you're looking for sooner or later.

Just that it's in the basin, unfortunately. They don't name specific sites for the fish's protection. But knowing the basin is a good place to start. If you're looking in the right basin and in the right type of habitat, you'll find the fish you're looking for sooner or later.

Lol, sounds like it takes spare time. Which unfortunately is not something I have alot of with work every day and a 2 1/2 month old at home.

I do like the thought of going out and doing it myself though.

With a regular NC Freshawter license you can legally keep NON-Protected species of NON-GAME fish caught with nets and traps: minnows, killies, pygmy sunfish (Elassoma), catfish, pirate perch, darters, mudminnow, gar, ...

Any GAME fish caught in NC with nets or traps must be released: sunfish (including Enneacanthus), bass, pickerel, pike, yellow perch, white perch, walleye, trout, etc. You can keep wild-caught game fish only if they are caught on hook+line (with a regular fishing licenese). Far as I know you can keep Enneacanthus bought from legal vendors in other states, or from an NC commercial game fish farm, although I'm not aware of any NC growers that raise Enneacanthus. South Carolina fishing rules are different.

For the Raleigh Aquar Soc field trip on Feb 17, I will have a scientific/educational permit that allows us to keep small numbers of game fish species caught with nets, for the collectors' own use. These fish may NOT be sold.

With a regular NC Freshawter license you can legally keep NON-Protected species of NON-GAME fish caught with nets and traps: minnows, killies, pygmy sunfish (Elassoma), catfish, pirate perch, darters, mudminnow, gar, ...

Any GAME fish caught in NC with nets or traps must be released: sunfish (including Enneacanthus), bass, pickerel, pike, yellow perch, white perch, walleye, trout, etc. You can keep wild-caught game fish only if they are caught on hook+line (with a regular fishing licenese). Far as I know you can keep Enneacanthus bought from legal vendors in other states, or from an NC commercial game fish farm, although I'm not aware of any NC growers that raise Enneacanthus. South Carolina fishing rules are different.

For the Raleigh Aquar Soc field trip on Feb 17, I will have a scientific/educational permit that allows us to keep small numbers of game fish species caught with nets, for the collectors' own use. These fish may NOT be sold.

I think I get it. Would it be okay to buy the $5 ten day or $15 whole year fishing license, catch a sunfish (game fish) with a hook, and keep it?

With a regular NC Freshawter license you can legally keep NON-Protected species of NON-GAME fish caught with nets and traps: minnows, killies, pygmy sunfish (Elassoma), catfish, pirate perch, darters, mudminnow, gar, ...

Any GAME fish caught in NC with nets or traps must be released: sunfish (including Enneacanthus), bass, pickerel, pike, yellow perch, white perch, walleye, trout, etc. You can keep wild-caught game fish only if they are caught on hook+line (with a regular fishing licenese). Far as I know you can keep Enneacanthus bought from legal vendors in other states, or from an NC commercial game fish farm, although I'm not aware of any NC growers that raise Enneacanthus. South Carolina fishing rules are different.

For the Raleigh Aquar Soc field trip on Feb 17, I will have a scientific/educational permit that allows us to keep small numbers of game fish species caught with nets, for the collectors' own use. These fish may NOT be sold.

I think I get it. Would it be okay to buy the $5 ten day or $15 whole year fishing license, catch a sunfish (game fish) with a hook, and keep it?

sounds right, see underlined sentance.