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Will Elassoma eat 'Ken's Golden Pearls'?


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#1 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:13 PM

I was watching youtube videos and I found this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHFSl7pv5dY&feature=fvst

In the video, AquaStudent feeds his scarlet badis (a fish that is a micropredator just like Elassoma and actually smaller than them) a food called Ken's Premium Golden Pearls, 200 to 300 micron size. I looked it up and it seems like this product is still available for sale on the website http://www.kensfish....ialty-food.html in a variety of sizes. Has anyone ever tried feeding this to your Elassoma? If so, what size did you use?

Edited by EricaWieser, 13 February 2012 - 08:14 PM.


#2 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:13 AM

If nobody replies I might just have to buy some of this stuff and try it. Currently the only things my Elassoma will eat are micro/walter worms and thawed frozen bloodworms daily, and live grindal worms twice a week or so. I'm worried about the health problems that can result from such a limited diet, so if there was something else they could eat that would be a big relief. I think I'm going to order some of these 'pearls' and try them out.

#3 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 09:25 AM

I think I'm going to order some of these 'pearls' and try them out.

All right, I bought a quarter pound each of the 50-100, 100-200, 200-300, and 300-500 micron pearls. Total cost: $30.10. I'll let you all know how it works out, and if they seem to prefer one size or another. It'd be great if the Elassoma ate this.

Edit:
Oh, I should probably note. The Elassoma currently get fed one or two cubes of bloodworms a day, so that's $5-$10 in frozen bloodworms a month. The grindal worms are basically free to maintain (they eat about three dog kibbles per day per culture), it's just that their population can crash sometimes and it's not a 100% guaranteed food source. Right now I've got like five tablespoons of grindal worms total :( But anyway, my point is, this 'pearls' thing would be more expensive than either of the foods I'm feeding the Elassoma now. But it would be the only dry, commercially prepared food, which makes it way more convenient than maintaining a stinky culture of grindal worms. It would mean I could go on vacation and put these dry 'pearls' in an auto feeder. And who knows, if the amount I just bought lasts 3 to 6 months then I guess it would be only equally expensive as the bloodworms.

Edited by EricaWieser, 14 February 2012 - 09:50 AM.


#4 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:37 PM

I have never tried Golden Pearls but will be very interested in your findings. Do they flioat? sink? neutral-buoyant? Dario and Badis are moderately fussy eaters, but not as bad as Elassoma. My E.gilberti colony has been running mainly on live blackworms (~ 70% of diet) and fresh-hatched brine shrimp (~ 20% of diet) for 12 years, with the remaining 10% mosquitoes, bloodworms, Moina, and Cyclops. And of course rotifer/paramecium mix for newborns. Hatching brine shrimp takes some time, but it's not stinky and is a good dietary complement to worms.

#5 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:21 PM

Do they flioat? sink? neutral-buoyant?

The video in the first post is a little grainy but if you put it on 720p and wait for it to load, you can sort of see the difference at 1:15 between the bubbles and the floating pearls. They seem to stay suspended in the water column.

#6 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:32 PM

I would like to extend this question to other foods. Has anyone tried to feed Elassoma any of the following?
Azoo artificial artemia
Azoo artificial rotifers
Hikari first bites
Tetra Color tropical granules
Tetra Min tropical granules
Tetra Marine saltwater granules
Hikari tropical micro bits
Top Fin color enhancing betta bits

It had never occurred to me to try feeding any of those to the Elassoma. If anybody has, please tell us how it went.

#7 Guest_RWHarper_*

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:58 PM

I never had much luck getting my Elassoma spp. to touch artificial foods. I would like to hear about other's success with them. The same goes for my Leptolucania ommata but they did eat the occasional small flakes. As for live foods, it was Chironomid (blood worms) and newly hatched mosquito larvae, which I was able to give them after freezing them.

#8 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:46 AM

As for live foods, it was Chironomid (blood worms) and newly hatched mosquito larvae, which I was able to give them after freezing them.

That reminds me, I keep seeing frozen mosquito larvae in the store when I buy frozen bloodworms and I haven't yet tried them. Next time I'm there, I'll buy a pack. Thank you for reminding me.

Update on the Ken's Pearls: Ken ships really fast and is great with customer communication. I already have a tracking number and am watching the package's progress. Would recommend to other buyers.

#9 Guest_VicC_*

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:01 AM

Soil-less Grindal Worm cultures might be more stable.


http://www.angelfire...fish/foods.html

on Nu Foam

#10 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:11 AM

Soil-less Grindal Worm cultures might be more stable.


http://www.angelfire...fish/foods.html

on Nu Foam

I do culture them soil-less, and I agree, it's a much better method. When the worms start to smell you can just lift the sponges or foam out and clean their container, then put the worms back in. It's just that I am unfortunately a newb and not experienced enough, and the worms have suffered while I figure things out. For example, that time I tried to refill their culture with chlorinated water. They didn't like that. Or when I thought they, like white worms, liked cold water. (They don't; they like it warm, definitely not below room temperature). Since I'm new at this it's been like a one half worm die off every time I clean their container.
Picture of my cultures: http://gallery.nanfa...02_001.JPG.html
Close up: http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1

Even once I do get the hang of it (I'm starting to, sort of) and the worms have a stable population, I don't want grindal worms to be the only food source for the Elassoma because fish fed only one food can get nutrient deficiencies. That's why it's good to add more variety to foods they eat. Especially since if they ate a dry food I could go on vacation and just load up an automatic fish feeder while I was gone. That is very exciting.

The reason why I'm starting with the $30 Ken's Premium Golden Pearls instead of any of the various other less expensive grandule foods like Azoo artificial artemia or rotifers is because Ken's granules come in defined micron sizes. So I know exactly how big the particle is, and can experimentally determine the one that the Elassoma gilberti will eat the most. I bought four different sizes (50-100, 100-200, 200-300, and 300-500 micron pearls) and will report back here which one(s) if any the Elassoma will eat. *nods*

Edited by EricaWieser, 15 February 2012 - 09:23 AM.


#11 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 12:04 PM

That reminds me, I keep seeing frozen mosquito larvae in the store when I buy frozen bloodworms and I haven't yet tried them. Next time I'm there, I'll buy a pack. Thank you for reminding me.


They are great... everything loves em... darters, Elassoma, top minnows, everyone.. my local pet store doesn't carry them as often as I would like and when they do I but them all ebfore anyone else gets a chance...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#12 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:17 PM

They are great... everything loves em... darters, Elassoma, top minnows, everyone.. my local pet store doesn't carry them as often as I would like and when they do I but them all ebfore anyone else gets a chance...

Why not just buy them all and leave everybody alone you bully.

#13 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:13 PM

They arrived! Here is my review:

First, the company. This is a very professional, well run operation. The product shipped the same day I bought it, I was able to track it with a number online, and it arrived in excellent condition and exactly as I ordered. I would definitely recommend Ken's Premium Golden Pearls to people looking for a defined size fish food granule.

Next, the product.
50-100 microns: Now that I can see it in person, I think I'm going to skip buying the 50-100 micron size granule again. It's just like super finely ground fish flakes. I own a mortar and pestle that I picked up for $4 at World Market one time, so it's cheaper for me to grind my own fish flakes than to buy them preground. This is the same reason that I have yet to buy Hikari First Bites. It mostly sits on the surface of the water and is ignored by the fish (except the guppy, which gulps at the surface 'cause he's just so easy to please).

100-200 microns: I can see how this would be a good fry food. It's basicaly like a rotifer, except you can buy it instead of having to breed it. I like it but again, probably wouldn't buy it a second time because my fry are bottom feeders so I use microworms. But this would be super super useful for water column fry because it stays suspended for a long time without sinking.

200-300 microns: At this range you can actually see the tiny little balls. I think that this and the 300-500 are the best for Elassoma. It's got a pretty good staying power in the water column. I think that has to do with the surface area to volume ratio. There are still some particles suspended after half an hour. You'll need some nonzero filter flow to keep them moving around.

300-500 microns: This is the size, if any, that adult Elassoma would eat. It sinks a little bit more than the 200-300 micron size, but it's closer to the size of an adult Elassoma gilberti mouth. The best I can think to describe it is like a quarter or a third of a betta pellet. It still stays suspended in the water column for a good few minutes.

The fish response: I haven't seen any of the Elassoma eat one of the golden pearls, but I have seen them look at them. That's a huge step in feeding fish; the longer they stare at it and the more they track its movement the more likely they are to eat it. These Elassoma are definitely watching this food. I also have one 'canary in the coal mine' type guppy, who is in the tank to show symptoms of illness should a pathogen be present (Elassoma won't itch themselves against tank decorations like other fish will). This guppy is loving all the food on the surface, for example the 50-100 micron size granules. It's not really what I would call a picky eater, though.

Here are some photos.
http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1
http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1
http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1

#14 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:46 PM

It might be a good idea to soak them with some of your thawed blood worms a short time to see if that might tempt them. Hopefully they would still suspend for some time. If it works slowly lessen time they are soaked over time down to no soaking. Gerald has mentioned this idea many times for various fishes.

#15 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:11 PM

It might be a good idea to soak them with some of your thawed blood worms a short time to see if that might tempt them. Hopefully they would still suspend for some time. If it works slowly lessen time they are soaked over time down to no soaking. Gerald has mentioned this idea many times for various fishes.

Thank you, I'll try that. Right now the frozen cube of bloodworms is thawing. It takes a lot longer to thaw sitting in the air of the room than it does when I swirl the cube around in the aquarium water, so I won't know how the soaking goes for a few hours. While I was waiting I added some 300-500 micron golden pearls to the Elassoma tank. The pearls stayed suspended for a good 10 minutes, and some of the Elassoma followed pearls around as they moved with the current. Two separate fish took an experimental bite, but spit the pearl out. It's progress; yesterday I didn't see any of the fish take a bite.

Edited by EricaWieser, 18 February 2012 - 01:12 PM.


#16 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 03:30 PM

It might be a good idea to soak them with some of your thawed blood worms a short time to see if that might tempt them. Hopefully they would still suspend for some time. If it works slowly lessen time they are soaked over time down to no soaking. Gerald has mentioned this idea many times for various fishes.

Thank you, I'll try that.

It was a little difficult to soak the pearls in bloodworm juice. Turns out that frozen cube is solid bloodworms, no juice. So all that happened was it looked like I had battered the bloodworms; sticky bloodworms coated in dry pearls. I added them to the fish tank anyway, and the fish enjoyed eating the bloodworms. I can't say whether or not they ate any pearls. I will say that, unexpectedly, the pearls dance on the substrate when it's coated in microworms. The little tiny worms wiggle and the pearls wiggle with them. Maybe that will help the Elassoma eat them.

Edited by EricaWieser, 18 February 2012 - 03:33 PM.


#17 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:57 PM

1) No surprise they didnt eat it on Day 1. Keep trying-- most fish take some time to adapt to new foods (except shiners and chubs), and pygmies are the gold-standard of picky eaters (like Mikey of Life Cereal fame). Erica's Special Pearl-Breaded Bloodworm Tenders just might be a winner, ... eventually.

2) I wonder if garlic might work as a flavor-enhancer to pygmies? It improves food (and lure) palatability to various other fishes. Anybody have knowledge of what fish species do or dont respond well to garlic in food? Or any other flavor-enhancers?

#18 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:23 PM

1) No surprise they didnt eat it on Day 1. Keep trying-- most fish take some time to adapt to new foods (except shiners and chubs), and pygmies are the gold-standard of picky eaters (like Mikey of Life Cereal fame). ...

I'm still feeding the Ken's Golden Pearls to them every day. There is a whole pound of the stuff so it looks like I'm going to continue doing so for a while. I'll report back here if I ever see them eat any.

About the garlic, I'm not sure. I have garlic in the kitchen but I'm not sure how to incorporate it into the pearls. When they get soaked in liquid they sink right away and then there's really no chance for the Elassoma to eat them.

Edited by EricaWieser, 21 February 2012 - 09:23 PM.


#19 Guest_smilingfrog_*

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:58 AM

When they get soaked in liquid they sink right away and then there's really no chance for the Elassoma to eat them.


If you soak them and let them dry out again will they still sink? They would likely stick together so you would have to break them up again, but it might work.

#20 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:26 PM

If you soak them and let them dry out again will they still sink? They would likely stick together so you would have to break them up again, but it might work.

That's an idea. I'm going to try it and post the results here.




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