Maybe I should say; biological filtration through plants only, with no mechanical filtration. I’ve found a number of threads where people briefly mention their unfiltered tanks, but I thought it would be good to begin a centralized thread where folks could give some detailed accounts and experiences with this type of tanks. Experiences from anything from the “standard” Walstad tank to any number of variations that you may have tried would be fun and informative to read about. The numbers of fish they have supported, the kinds of plants and density of plants, and the type and duration of lighting would all be valuable information.
I got this idea from reading the reply that rickwrench added to a question about his unfiltered tanks on a thread about PH. The post can be found here:
http://forum.nanfa.o...6422#entry96422
I found this so interesting, especially the number of fish in his nephew's tank, that I thought that a thread full of similar accounts would make for a great read. I've got some heavily planted tanks that I may remove the filters or filter media from soon and I'll post the results here. So, please, any experiences you've had with unfiltered tanks would make a great contribution to this thread.
Thanks in advance,
Steve.
Unfiltered Aquariums
Started by
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, Feb 18 2012 10:25 AM
35 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 12:53 PM
I am not sure how this can be done. Most people asking for self sufficient aquariums end up finding their tank is too small for it. but most ask about an entire ecosystem not filtration. (honestly the onlt aquarium I heard of functioning without feeding or cleaning was in biosphere 2 where fish still thrive even after the CO2 testing phase killed the coral).
I am not sure what amount of plants or size tank could thrive on plants alone. You'd likely still need water changes to remove toxins as th plants will likely not keep up with the feeding.
I am not sure what amount of plants or size tank could thrive on plants alone. You'd likely still need water changes to remove toxins as th plants will likely not keep up with the feeding.
#3
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:24 PM
My tank is plant filtered, if you define that as consistently having a nitrate concentration of only 10 ppm. Here, let me grab a test strip and test my two tanks:
http://smg.photobuck...rrent=002-3.jpg
Yup. The test kit reads them as being between 0 and 20 ppm nitrate, the lowest it can go. It's been at least two weeks since I've done a water change (I say that conservatively; let's just say that I don't remember the last time I did a water change). The only reason I do water changes is because it's so easy to do with sink faucet connection and because I want to avoid allelopathic plant chemical warfare. Which means I do a 50% water change like once a month or when I remember. *nods* Every time I do a water change, the nitrate was at only 10 ppm before I do it.
It's doesn't actually take an overwhelming plant mass to suck up all the nitrogen. I feed the guppy tank, the 10 gallon, five times a day all the fish can eat and more. And you see how much plants there are:
10 gallon guppy tank: http://img.photobuck...imiru/005-4.jpg
There's some bolbitis in the back left, a clump of java moss on the bottom left, and some Hygrophila difformis in the back right. And utricularia gibba draped over everything (it's like a weed). I trim all the plants in my tanks and sell them on craigslist for ten bucks like once a month. Right now the 55 gallon is like five days post trimming, which is why the plants look so short.
55 gallon Elassoma gilberti tank: http://smg.photobuck...rrent=003-5.jpg
You asked for details about the tanks, so here they are.
The 10 gallon tank has like 15 guppies in it, bolbitis, hygrophila difformis, utricularia, and moss. It has kitty litter substrate, a 10 gallon filter on it for water movement, a heater, and three lights on it. Two of the lights are from Home Depot and are just generic 'shop lights', I think designed for undercabinet or something. I bought full spectrum 18 inch bulbs for them. The third light is a 24 inch standard aquarium hood, 'cause I had it left over. I feed the guppies about four or five times a day with flake food. The temperature is 82 Fahrenheit. The substrate is Special Kitty brand cat litter, pure baked ground clay.
The 55 gallon tank has Myriophyllum pinnatum, Lysimmachia nummularia, Ludwigia peruensis, Proserpinaca palustris, Rotalla wallichi, Ludwigia natans, Ludwigia ovalis, Utricularia gibba, and Hemianthus callitrichoides. It has two 4 foot long Lithonia shop lights from Home Depot on it, with full spectrum T8 fluorescent bulbs on it. The substrate is again kitty litter, with like an inch of horrible awful Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix® under it that occassionally gives me problems by bubbling up like a volcano. (It was a mistake.) I feed the tank once a day with about a tablespoon of microworms and twice a day with a cube of bloodworms or a cube of bloodworms and a half tablespoon of live grindal worms. The temperature is currently 69 Fahrenheit. There is a waterfall filter on the tank for water movement, not for filtration.
http://smg.photobuck...rrent=002-3.jpg
Yup. The test kit reads them as being between 0 and 20 ppm nitrate, the lowest it can go. It's been at least two weeks since I've done a water change (I say that conservatively; let's just say that I don't remember the last time I did a water change). The only reason I do water changes is because it's so easy to do with sink faucet connection and because I want to avoid allelopathic plant chemical warfare. Which means I do a 50% water change like once a month or when I remember. *nods* Every time I do a water change, the nitrate was at only 10 ppm before I do it.
It's doesn't actually take an overwhelming plant mass to suck up all the nitrogen. I feed the guppy tank, the 10 gallon, five times a day all the fish can eat and more. And you see how much plants there are:
10 gallon guppy tank: http://img.photobuck...imiru/005-4.jpg
There's some bolbitis in the back left, a clump of java moss on the bottom left, and some Hygrophila difformis in the back right. And utricularia gibba draped over everything (it's like a weed). I trim all the plants in my tanks and sell them on craigslist for ten bucks like once a month. Right now the 55 gallon is like five days post trimming, which is why the plants look so short.
55 gallon Elassoma gilberti tank: http://smg.photobuck...rrent=003-5.jpg
You asked for details about the tanks, so here they are.
The 10 gallon tank has like 15 guppies in it, bolbitis, hygrophila difformis, utricularia, and moss. It has kitty litter substrate, a 10 gallon filter on it for water movement, a heater, and three lights on it. Two of the lights are from Home Depot and are just generic 'shop lights', I think designed for undercabinet or something. I bought full spectrum 18 inch bulbs for them. The third light is a 24 inch standard aquarium hood, 'cause I had it left over. I feed the guppies about four or five times a day with flake food. The temperature is 82 Fahrenheit. The substrate is Special Kitty brand cat litter, pure baked ground clay.
The 55 gallon tank has Myriophyllum pinnatum, Lysimmachia nummularia, Ludwigia peruensis, Proserpinaca palustris, Rotalla wallichi, Ludwigia natans, Ludwigia ovalis, Utricularia gibba, and Hemianthus callitrichoides. It has two 4 foot long Lithonia shop lights from Home Depot on it, with full spectrum T8 fluorescent bulbs on it. The substrate is again kitty litter, with like an inch of horrible awful Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix® under it that occassionally gives me problems by bubbling up like a volcano. (It was a mistake.) I feed the tank once a day with about a tablespoon of microworms and twice a day with a cube of bloodworms or a cube of bloodworms and a half tablespoon of live grindal worms. The temperature is currently 69 Fahrenheit. There is a waterfall filter on the tank for water movement, not for filtration.
Edited by EricaWieser, 18 February 2012 - 01:50 PM.
#4
Guest_steve_*
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:42 PM
I am not sure how this can be done. Most people asking for self sufficient aquariums end up finding their tank is too small for it. but most ask about an entire ecosystem not filtration. (honestly the onlt aquarium I heard of functioning without feeding or cleaning was in biosphere 2 where fish still thrive even after the CO2 testing phase killed the coral).
I am not sure what amount of plants or size tank could thrive on plants alone. You'd likely still need water changes to remove toxins as th plants will likely not keep up with the feeding.
It actually can be done. I'm not really asking about aquariums that are completely self-sufficient, but aquariums where the plants provide the biological filtration through using ammonia/ammonium instead of having a filter where the bacteria convert the ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate whereby water changes are necessary to lower the nitrate levels. As long as the plants can use up all the ammonia/ammonium from the fish waste and uneaten food, then there should be no need for water changes unless there are issues with plants not getting along.
My heavily planted 75 gallon ran for 2 months with no filter, just a pump for circulation. My tests showed the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels all at 0. I added a HOB filter with a sponge for mechanical filtration after about 2 months to help clear up the water. After a few weeks from adding the filter, the water in the tank began to test positive for nitrate. My assumption was that, as a side effect of the mechanical filtration, enough bacteria had colonized in the sponge to began the bacterial nitrification process. Just today, I removed the filter. Although I have more fish in the tank than I did when I began operating the filter, I believe I've got enough plant growth to compensate. I've still got the filter media in another tank to continue enough bacterial growth while I test this out just in case I've added too many fish. In this 75 gallon resides, 1 longear sunfish, 5 bigeye chubs, 4 redside dace, 1 silver jaw minnow, 2 rainbow darters, 2 greenside darters, 3 logperch darters, and 3-4 banded darters. A little over 20 fish in all. It's lit for about 12 hours a day with 2 T8 fixtures with 2 bulbs each. In each fixture I've got one 500k bulb and one 6500k bulb. I trim plants about once a week or so. I'll update the results of the filter removal in a week or so.
In the meantime; any more experiences with unfiltered tanks?
Thanks.
Steve.
#5
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:52 PM
You should still do water changes. With such a small volume of water as we have in our home aquariums, it's easy for a toxin to build up in concentration. There's no reason not to do a water change like once a month or so.As long as the plants can use up all the ammonia/ammonium from the fish waste and uneaten food, then there should be no need for water changes unless there are issues with plants not getting along.
Also, your nitrate shouldn't be at 0 ppm. I mean, it can be, and that's a thing that can happen. But it means your plants are starving and actively competing for food. The weakest one will lose the battle.
The K value is just the color temperature of the light bub; it has nothing to do with the spectrum the bulb is emitting. This is what color temperature means: http://upload.wikime...-comparison.png It's how yellow or blue or white the light is. It's a description of color.In each fixture I've got one 500k bulb and one 6500k bulb.
This is the absorption spectrum of chlorophyll: http://upload.wikime...ab_spectra2.PNG
You need a full spectrum emitting light bulb to make sure that your light energy is in the right region of the spectrum (400-500 and 600-700 nanometers) for the plant to be able to eat it. Color temperature has nothing to do with whether or not the light will provide the energy in the right part of the spectrum for the plants to eat. White light is like the number 10. A lot of numbers (individual energy spectra peak emissions) can add up to 10 (white light), so you can't know just by looking at the white light what its components are. Two fives can add up to ten or an eight and a two can add up to ten. Without looking at the spectrum or specifically buying a full spectrum bulb, you won't know whether you've got two fives or an eight and a two. If your plant can only eat eight and two, and you have two fives, it will starve to death.
Edited by EricaWieser, 18 February 2012 - 02:01 PM.
#6
Guest_steve_*
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:55 PM
My tank is plant filtered, if you define that as consistently having a nitrate concentration of only 10 ppm. Here, let me grab a test strip and test my two tanks:
http://smg.photobuck...rrent=002-3.jpg
Yup. The test kit reads them as being between 0 and 20 ppm nitrate, the lowest it can go. It's been at least two weeks since I've done a water change (I say that conservatively; let's just say that I don't remember the last time I did a water change). The only reason I do water changes is because it's so easy to do with sink faucet connection and because I want to avoid allelopathic plant chemical warfare. Which means I do a 50% water change like once a month or when I remember. *nods* Every time I do a water change, the nitrate was at only 10 ppm before I do it.
It's doesn't actually take an overwhelming plant mass to suck up all the nitrogen. I feed the guppy tank, the 10 gallon, five times a day all the fish can eat and more. And you see how much plants there are:
10 gallon guppy tank: http://img.photobuck...imiru/005-4.jpg
There's some bolbitis in the back left, a clump of java moss on the bottom left, and some Hygrophila difformis in the back right. And utricularia gibba draped over everything (it's like a weed). I trim all the plants in my tanks and sell them on craigslist for ten bucks like once a month. Right now the 55 gallon is like five days post trimming, which is why the plants look so short.
55 gallon Elassoma gilberti tank: http://smg.photobuck...rrent=003-5.jpg
You asked for details about the tanks, so here they are.
The 10 gallon tank has like 15 guppies in it, bolbitis, hygrophila difformis, utricularia, and moss. It has kitty litter substrate, a 10 gallon filter on it for water movement, a heater, and three lights on it. Two of the lights are from Home Depot and are just generic 'shop lights', I think designed for undercabinet or something. I bought full spectrum 18 inch bulbs for them. The third light is a 24 inch standard aquarium hood, 'cause I had it left over. I feed the guppies about four or five times a day with flake food. The temperature is 82 Fahrenheit. The substrate is Special Kitty brand cat litter, pure baked ground clay.
The 55 gallon tank has Myriophyllum pinnatum, Lysimmachia nummularia, Ludwigia peruensis, Proserpinaca palustris, Rotalla wallichi, Ludwigia natans, Ludwigia ovalis, Utricularia gibba, and Hemianthus callitrichoides. It has two 4 foot long Lithonia shop lights from Home Depot on it, with full spectrum T8 fluorescent bulbs on it. The substrate is again kitty litter, with like an inch of horrible awful Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix® under it that occassionally gives me problems by bubbling up like a volcano. (It was a mistake.) I feed the tank once a day with about a tablespoon of microworms and twice a day with a cube of bloodworms or a cube of bloodworms and a half tablespoon of live grindal worms. The temperature is currently 69 Fahrenheit. There is a waterfall filter on the tank for water movement, not for filtration.
Are your filters empty or do they have some type of media in them where bacteria can colonize?
Thanks for the reply.
Edited by steve, 18 February 2012 - 02:01 PM.
#7
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 02:03 PM
They've got media in them. But the ammonia being at 0 ppm, nitrite being at 0 ppm, and nitrate being at 10 ppm means that the plants are actively consuming all of the nitrogenous waste in the water column. The plants are outcompeting the filter. Because they are eating all of the nitrosomonas' and nitrospiras' food, I doubt there is a very large bacterial population in the filter media.Are your filters empty or do they have some type of media in them where bacteria can colonize?
Edited by EricaWieser, 18 February 2012 - 02:07 PM.
#8
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 02:09 PM
They've got media in them. But the ammonia being at 0 ppm, nitrite being at 0 ppm, and nitrate being at 10 ppm means that the plants are actively consuming all of the nitrogenous waste in the water column. The plants are outcompeting the filter. Because they are eating all of the nitrosomonas' and nitrospiras' food, I doubt there is a maximal bacterial population in the filter media.
That certainly makes sense. 10 ppm is pretty minimal. I'm interested to see if the nitrate level gets back to zero in my 75 gallon after removing the filter. It's not that I really need to or anything, I'm just curious. Thanks for the replies and the detailed write up. I enjoy reading about people's experiences with this.
Steve.
#9
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 05:17 PM
Hey Steve, I got one... Couple inches of dirt on the bottom and a bunch of plants in a 25 gallon bow front... with a single Enneacanthus obesus, that according to collection records is now over 7 years old... at times there has been another fish in there or two (tadpole madtom for a while that mysteriously showed up on the floor one day for example). I never clean the front glass and rarely change any water (like 4 times a year). There is no filter or water movement at all... just lights. It is the perfect, stress-free tank... the banded just cruises around through the plants and occasionally make a nice 'smacking' sound off the surface of the water... very peaceful swampy scene.
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#10
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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:50 PM
This is probably not what you are looking for but it is biological, does great under heavy load, was cheap for me to make and is the best filter I have ever owned. The down side is it's almost impossible to grow palnts in my tanks. I don't worry too much about that though because most of my darters prefer rocks until breeding time then I'll add plants for my Banded, Iowa darters and algae covered rocks for my Greensided. Anyway I have been using an algae scrubber (like used on saltwater tanks) for over a year now with quite a decent load on it (@80 darters) and it does great. I do clean the aglae plate as needed (usually weekly in the warmer months) but no big deal. I do try to lessen the load on it by using live foods as much as possible.
#11
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:14 AM
You should still do water changes. With such a small volume of water as we have in our home aquariums, it's easy for a toxin to build up in concentration. There's no reason not to do a water change like once a month or so.
Also, your nitrate shouldn't be at 0 ppm. I mean, it can be, and that's a thing that can happen. But it means your plants are starving and actively competing for food. The weakest one will lose the battle.
The K value is just the color temperature of the light bub; it has nothing to do with the spectrum the bulb is emitting. This is what color temperature means: http://upload.wikime...-comparison.png It's how yellow or blue or white the light is. It's a description of color.
This is the absorption spectrum of chlorophyll: http://upload.wikime...ab_spectra2.PNG
You need a full spectrum emitting light bulb to make sure that your light energy is in the right region of the spectrum (400-500 and 600-700 nanometers) for the plant to be able to eat it. Color temperature has nothing to do with whether or not the light will provide the energy in the right part of the spectrum for the plants to eat. White light is like the number 10. A lot of numbers (individual energy spectra peak emissions) can add up to 10 (white light), so you can't know just by looking at the white light what its components are. Two fives can add up to ten or an eight and a two can add up to ten. Without looking at the spectrum or specifically buying a full spectrum bulb, you won't know whether you've got two fives or an eight and a two. If your plant can only eat eight and two, and you have two fives, it will starve to death.
I'm sorry that you don't like my lighting set up, but I wasn't really asking for advice. I just wanted to start a thread where people could give accounts of their experiences with "unconventional" biological filtration for us all to enjoy reading.
#12
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:41 AM
I meant no offense. Just trying to help.I'm sorry that you don't like my lighting set up, but I wasn't really asking for advice. I just wanted to start a thread where people could give accounts of their experiences with "unconventional" biological filtration for us all to enjoy reading.
#13
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 03:41 AM
Hey Steve, I got one... Couple inches of dirt on the bottom and a bunch of plants in a 25 gallon bow front... with a single Enneacanthus obesus, that according to collection records is now over 7 years old... at times there has been another fish in there or two (tadpole madtom for a while that mysteriously showed up on the floor one day for example). I never clean the front glass and rarely change any water (like 4 times a year). There is no filter or water movement at all... just lights. It is the perfect, stress-free tank... the banded just cruises around through the plants and occasionally make a nice 'smacking' sound off the surface of the water... very peaceful swampy scene.
That's really cool. I'm not familiar with the average age of a banded sunfish, but that seems like its getting up there. Sounds like the set up(plant growth) is experiencing some great longevity also. I've often thought about setting up a small swamp tank similar to that and seeing if I could get enough hours of sunlight through a window in the summer to let it go completely non-powered for part of the year.
Thanks Micheal, I like it!
This is probably not what you are looking for but it is biological, does great under heavy load, was cheap for me to make and is the best filter I have ever owned. The down side is it's almost impossible to grow palnts in my tanks. I don't worry too much about that though because most of my darters prefer rocks until breeding time then I'll add plants for my Banded, Iowa darters and algae covered rocks for my Greensided. Anyway I have been using an algae scrubber (like used on saltwater tanks) for over a year now with quite a decent load on it (@80 darters) and it does great. I do clean the aglae plate as needed (usually weekly in the warmer months) but no big deal. I do try to lessen the load on it by using live foods as much as possible.
I have to admit, it isn't what I was thinking of when I started the thread, but it definitely fits perfectly into the realm of things I was hoping to hear about. This is fascinating. As I sit here, I'm thinking of multiple advantages that it could have, especially keeping the water cooler. I'm assuming you're running multiple tanks on it? How large of an algae plate does it take for your 80 darters? Very interesting stuff. Thank you much.
#14
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:43 AM
This is probably not what you are looking for but it is biological, does great under heavy load, was cheap for me to make and is the best filter I have ever owned. The down side is it's almost impossible to grow palnts in my tanks. I don't worry too much about that though because most of my darters prefer rocks until breeding time then I'll add plants for my Banded, Iowa darters and algae covered rocks for my Greensided. Anyway I have been using an algae scrubber (like used on saltwater tanks) for over a year now with quite a decent load on it (@80 darters) and it does great. I do clean the aglae plate as needed (usually weekly in the warmer months) but no big deal. I do try to lessen the load on it by using live foods as much as possible.
I would like to hear more about your set up Ken. I like filtering with pants... but also like re-creating the riffle environment in a tank... this seems to be a way to do both... tell us more... show us pictures... draw a diagram...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#15
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:06 PM
I've lately been reviewing my ideas on fish load in heavily planted tanks. When my nephew's 20g tank ran fine all this last year with a very heavy fish load, it made me think about inches of "fish" per gallon guidelines vs. inches of various -species- per gallon.
The fish in his tank were primarily vegetarian, mollies, platties, flagfish, so the waste was low protein and easily broken down.
A tank full of an equal mass of sunfish would be producing a veritable protein soup of waste, in comparison.
I've kept a lot of sunfish species over the years and they've always seemed to be "dirty" fish. I can only successfully keep about 1" of sunfish for every 5-6 gallons of water. My nephews 20g was at 1" of veggie fish for 1 gallon. Was the difference as simple as veggie eating fish vs. sunfish, or something else?
Snails!
Most larger sunfish eat 99% of the snails in any tank, and in a heavily planted "unfiltered" tank, snails are a very important part of the natural chain.
Snails convert waste (fish poop, dead plant material, extra fish food) into snail mass and plant fertilizer.
No snails = reduced capacity to handle waste, and leaves large waste for solely bacterial breakdown.
I've realized that my tanks with very low snail populations are also "slow" tanks, wrt good plant growth.
Coincidence?
I managed to post up pics of a few of my tanks in the Nanfa gallery, btw.
Rick
The fish in his tank were primarily vegetarian, mollies, platties, flagfish, so the waste was low protein and easily broken down.
A tank full of an equal mass of sunfish would be producing a veritable protein soup of waste, in comparison.
I've kept a lot of sunfish species over the years and they've always seemed to be "dirty" fish. I can only successfully keep about 1" of sunfish for every 5-6 gallons of water. My nephews 20g was at 1" of veggie fish for 1 gallon. Was the difference as simple as veggie eating fish vs. sunfish, or something else?
Snails!
Most larger sunfish eat 99% of the snails in any tank, and in a heavily planted "unfiltered" tank, snails are a very important part of the natural chain.
Snails convert waste (fish poop, dead plant material, extra fish food) into snail mass and plant fertilizer.
No snails = reduced capacity to handle waste, and leaves large waste for solely bacterial breakdown.
I've realized that my tanks with very low snail populations are also "slow" tanks, wrt good plant growth.
Coincidence?
I managed to post up pics of a few of my tanks in the Nanfa gallery, btw.
Rick
#16
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:37 PM
Those NANFA gallery pictures of your tanks are very nice, Rick. They are very beautiful aquariums.
About this:
It costs aquatic plants more energy to use nitrate as a food source than ammonium. For that reason aquatic plants prefer to eat ammonium over nitrate, and when both are present will consume all available ammonium before they deign to consume any nitrate. This article goes into more detail: http://theaquariumwi...ical_Filtration
So if the leftover fish food proteins sit on the ground and degrade into ammonia and ammonium, the plants have their #1 food. If the proteins get eaten and partially consumed by snails (which then excrete the nitrogen from the proteins in the form of ammonia), then that's less ammonium that is available for the plants because some of the nitrogen was consumed in creating snail tissue. If there are nitrogen converting bacteria, which convert ammonium to nitrite to nitrate, then that's also less food for the plants because nitrate is more energetically expensive for the plants to eat than ammonium. So both snails and nitrogen converting bacteria are actively competing with the plants for food.
Personally, I have both snails and nitrogen converting bacteria in my tank. The snails are a source of food for my Elassoma and the nitrogen converting bacteria help there to never be a measurable ammonia concentration even at night when the plants aren't working. Both detract from plant growth, but it's worth it. But yeah, the snails definitely aren't helping the plants grow. Especially when you remove snail mass from the closed system by periodically removing the snails and selling them to people, like I used to do. Or removing them and throwing them in the trash, like some people who hate snails do. That reduces the total nitrogen in the tank, which would otherwise have gone back to the plants when the snails died. Not that that matters, because you're constantly adding more fish food, but the point is the snails cannot possibly help the plants. They can only inhibit their growth, at least the way I'm looking at it.
Anyway, long story short, the snails don't increase the tank's capacity to handle waste. They take something that was going to be ammonia and turn it into ammonia. ...
About this:
Both snails and nitrogen converting bacteria compete with plants for food.Snails!
Most larger sunfish eat 99% of the snails in any tank, and in a heavily planted "unfiltered" tank, snails are a very important part of the natural chain.
Snails convert waste (fish poop, dead plant material, extra fish food) into snail mass and plant fertilizer.
No snails = reduced capacity to handle waste, and leaves large waste for solely bacterial breakdown.
I've realized that my tanks with very low snail populations are also "slow" tanks, wrt good plant growth.
Coincidence?
It costs aquatic plants more energy to use nitrate as a food source than ammonium. For that reason aquatic plants prefer to eat ammonium over nitrate, and when both are present will consume all available ammonium before they deign to consume any nitrate. This article goes into more detail: http://theaquariumwi...ical_Filtration
So if the leftover fish food proteins sit on the ground and degrade into ammonia and ammonium, the plants have their #1 food. If the proteins get eaten and partially consumed by snails (which then excrete the nitrogen from the proteins in the form of ammonia), then that's less ammonium that is available for the plants because some of the nitrogen was consumed in creating snail tissue. If there are nitrogen converting bacteria, which convert ammonium to nitrite to nitrate, then that's also less food for the plants because nitrate is more energetically expensive for the plants to eat than ammonium. So both snails and nitrogen converting bacteria are actively competing with the plants for food.
Personally, I have both snails and nitrogen converting bacteria in my tank. The snails are a source of food for my Elassoma and the nitrogen converting bacteria help there to never be a measurable ammonia concentration even at night when the plants aren't working. Both detract from plant growth, but it's worth it. But yeah, the snails definitely aren't helping the plants grow. Especially when you remove snail mass from the closed system by periodically removing the snails and selling them to people, like I used to do. Or removing them and throwing them in the trash, like some people who hate snails do. That reduces the total nitrogen in the tank, which would otherwise have gone back to the plants when the snails died. Not that that matters, because you're constantly adding more fish food, but the point is the snails cannot possibly help the plants. They can only inhibit their growth, at least the way I'm looking at it.
Anyway, long story short, the snails don't increase the tank's capacity to handle waste. They take something that was going to be ammonia and turn it into ammonia. ...
Edited by EricaWieser, 19 February 2012 - 04:55 PM.
#17
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:28 PM
Not that that matters, because you're constantly adding more fish food, but the point is the snails cannot possibly help the plants. They can only inhibit their growth, at least the way I'm looking at it.
But wait... even healthy growing plants shed a few leaves here are there as the leaves mature (don't they? seems that is the case for my plants anyway)... and the snails are also consuming this dead and dying plant matter... it's almost like pruning the garden to assure that the plants that are there have everything they need. Or am I thinking about it wrong?
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#18
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:48 PM
What would happen if the dead plant leaves were not consumed by the snails? The proteins in the leaf tissue would decay into ammonia that would be in equilibrium with the ammonium that is food for the growing plant. The snails are once again eating the plant's food.But wait... even healthy growing plants shed a few leaves here are there as the leaves mature (don't they? seems that is the case for my plants anyway)... and the snails are also consuming this dead and dying plant matter... it's almost like pruning the garden to assure that the plants that are there have everything they need. Or am I thinking about it wrong?
#19
Guest_steve_*
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:06 PM
What would happen if the dead plant leaves were not consumed by the snails? The proteins in the leaf tissue would decay into ammonia that would be in equilibrium with the ammonium that is food for the growing plant. The snails are once again eating the plant's food.
Here's how I interpret the situation; snails are not the main competitor for plant nutrients - algae is the main competitor for plant nutrients. Snails eat algae and turn it into waste that plants can use. Thus, snails remove the plants' #1 competitor and turn it into plant food. Therefore, snails help plants.
#20
Guest_rickwrench_*
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 11:39 PM
Those NANFA gallery pictures of your tanks are very nice, Rick. They are very beautiful aquariums.
Thank you Erica. I like the tanks to look clean, with the minimum amount of "equipment" visible. Preferably none! Clear pick-up and return pipes help on the tanks that use canisters for water movement (I have coarse gravel in the canister baskets). Powerheads and coarse foam anti-snail screens are hidden as best as possible.
My next tank project; a 26 Gallon square (21"x24"x12"tall) pemco SS breeder tank, open top, with a drilled bottom for both the inlet pipe and clear center tube overflow return tube. I'd like to build a large "volcano" of submersed and emersed plants in the center. Open top and an LED pendant light. Fill it with 2 dozen Adinia xenica. The stand would have a hidden sump and circulation pump. 360 degree viewable. Who really needs a coffee table anyway?
On the snails; if snails remove nutrient from the water column, that would force the plants to switch to substrate feeding. If the water column has been scrubbed of suspended detritus, waste and nutrient by snails, does starving algae stand a chance again against plants feeding on a rich substrate?
Supposition: In the plant vs algae war, in heavily planted, snail infested dirt tanks, plants still eat heartily from a rich substrate, while algae starves in the snail cleansed water column.
Rick
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