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Building my own tank- dimension question

Started by Guest_lgyure85_* , Mar 01 2012 08:26 AM

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15 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_lgyure85_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:26 AM

So I am considering building my own darter tank, instead of buying a commercial one, since I don't really like how they look (I'm not a fan of black trim, and I don't want to pay out the butt for a fancy one). What would the ideal dimensions be for a darter tank between 15 and 20 gallons? I was thinking something along the lines of 36"x12"x10". I don't want it to be any taller than 10" really, since the shorter the tank is the sturdier it will be, and 10" should give them enough room to climb around some still.

I'm going on a trip to MO at the end of April, so I have some time, but not much excess.

Thanks!

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#2 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:34 AM

It's fun building your own tank. But do the math on construction versus buying so that you don't end up building yourself something that costs twice as much as it would have to buy it. Don't forget that tank building requires tools and adhesives, not just glass/acrylic. A black trimmed 20 gallon long that is sold in stores is 30x12x12" and in general $30 to $40. A clear edged acrylic 20 gallon long tank costs around $130 to $150 ( http://www.dtpetsupp...roducts_id=5426 ). So definitely don't let your tank build costs rise above $200; at that point it's cheaper to just buy it.

Also, darters will climb if you give them stuff to climb on and incentive to get up there. My profile picture is of a female Etheostoma spectabile hanging out in Ceratophyllum demersum eating swordtail fry, high up off of the ground.
Pictures:
http://img.photobuck...imiru/022-1.jpg
http://img.photobuck...imiru/023-1.jpg
http://img.photobuck...imiru/019-3.jpg
This was back when my 55 gallon tank was swordtails and darters, http://img.photobuck...imiru/001-1.jpg
Those darters hunted down every last swordtail fry and ate them all up.

Edited by EricaWieser, 01 March 2012 - 09:50 AM.

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#3 Guest_AussiePeter_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:09 AM

Buy a 20 long and cut the trim off the tank. That's a great sized tank for darters and fish in general. Aquariums don't need trim.

Cheers
Peter

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#4 Guest_exasperatus2002_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:41 AM

^{I have a friend who keeps shell dwelling african cichlids. He got several used 20 longs off craigslist & had them cut down & the plastic bracket reglued. They looked cool & since it was in his fish room saved alot on space. With that being said, in my 55 gallon darter tank. My orangethroats & banded darters will swim in the current up to the top of the tank even if its not to snatch up the last blood worm. My tank is sparsely planted with Cryptocoryne wendtii & java moss.}

Edited by exasperatus2002, 01 March 2012 - 10:46 AM.

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#5 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:37 PM

Buy a 20 long and cut the trim off the tank. That's a great sized tank for darters and fish in general. Aquariums don't need trim.

Cheers
Peter

Agree with this approach... The top trim is particularly east to get off and is particularly not needed on a small aquarium like a 20long.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#6 Guest_VicC_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:03 PM

I don't want it to be any taller than 10" really, since the shorter the tank is the sturdier it will be, and 10" should give them enough room to climb around some still.

Yes, have some fun, build your own tank.

To answer your questions and NOT suggest something else, I think a 48 long, 10 wide, and 8 deep (only filled to 5 inches) would be a fun size. (You should support the whole bottom.)

Yes, the deeper that tank, the greater the pressure to make the sides bow out, but the taller the sides, the better the sides work as a bridge carrying the bottom weight from the end supports.

I cut up broken fish tanks. Any glass over 1/4 inch is too difficult to cut, but only the oldest 55 gallon tanks have thick glass. Buy a glass cutter made for stained glass, which has an oil reservoir.

Buy a caulk tube of silicon rubber. Lowes and Home Depot have brands with bad chemicals added. Try Ace or Menards.

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#7 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:37 PM

For silicone I reccomend GE Silicone II. Most of it is fish safe and holds well. If it has an algaecide (Ones made for showers usually do) it's not safe.

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#8 Guest_Doug_Dame_*

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:54 AM

Since you're in TN, you should check out GlassCages, which is located in Dickson. (I think.) They'll custom build a tank to your dimensions, or you can get one of their std sizes. www.glasscages.com

I am a big fan of 48" long tanks, since they're easy to light with std fluorescents you can buy at any home improvement store, and 48" tubes are also easy to get. And big enough to have a diverse community of darters.
- a 33L is (+/-) 48x12x12. It's like the ubiquitous 55, except only 60% as tall.
- a 50L is (+/-) 48x18x12 tall. The 18" width is really nice because it makes it easier to have high-flow and low-flow areas, and let the fish pick their comfort zone.

Buying rimless adds a lot of cost. (GlassCages' current price for a 33L is $79 for std w/ rim, $170 rimless. In contrast, the 50L with rim is $112.) Having a rimless tank seems pointless to me if it's just going to have some kind of light fixture or hood on the top.

10" is really shallow, once you add some sand for a base substrate plus some rocks for structure, and little bit of freeboard above.

Local fish stores sometimes run deals on tanks, or may negotiate. Unless you're building a really odd size, or many tanks, I'm not sure there's a lot of money to be saved by building one tank. And if you buy pre-made, it can be cycling tomorrow. Plus Craigslist is always worth checking out if you're looking for a tank. These DIY projects sometimes drag out. On the other hand, you do get exactly what you want. (Well, hopefully!!)

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#9 Guest_lgyure85_*

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:49 AM

Can everyone please remember the question I am asking? What are the ideal dimensions for a tank (keeping it under 20gal) for native darters. I am not asking for tank building advice. I know how to build a tank, and I have taken into account the pros and cons of doing such, both financially and otherwise.

I have taken everything into account, and I can build the tank I want for significantly cheaper than a new one.

I do not trust the silicone on used ones, as I have had problems in the past, even when they "looked" fine.

Obviously, I am not going to commissioning one made, since this would cost way more than one from a store.

I am also having the glass cut where I buy it, since this is the simplest way to do it. I have zero experience in glass cutting, and the place I am getting my glass from will do it for free, so re-cycling old tanks is out. This would also require me to buy used tanks, which would put me way over budget.

That being said, any more suggestions on dimensions are welcome!

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#10 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:11 AM

Can everyone please remember the question I am asking? What are the ideal dimensions for a tank (keeping it under 20gal) for native darters.

There are no ideal dimensions. Darters can and will occupy whatever space you give them. When I kept mine, I did so in a 55 gallon tank. They were everywhere. Sitting on the ground, swimming near the powerhead, sitting up high near the surface on plants. They will go wherever there's food or the possibility of there being food. That being said, they also don't have swim bladders like other fish, so if you want them to get off of the ground you've either got to give them ledges/plants to climb on or a strong enough current to lift them up. A bare tank with no current will have all of its darters sitting bored on the bottom. Plan the current for the tank in advance. Here's a good example: http://www.loaches.c...manifold_02.JPG and http://www.loaches.c...pg/image_medium

More space is better. Mine were a tad bit territorial. When one male that had been swimming in the water column landed abruptly on a male who had been sitting on the ground, there was a little bit of a scuffle. A larger tank means less aggression like that.

A 20 gallon tank, to me, is useless for darters. They won't breed in that small a space (well, they will, but they'll eat their fry). And there isn't really a lot of room (I only had a dozen darters in my 55. You'd probably want even less in a <20 gallon tank). If it were me, and I were planning on getting darters, I'd build a tank stand and put multiple tanks on it. Then I'd rotate the darters through the tanks and try to breed them. But that's just me.

Edited by EricaWieser, 02 March 2012 - 10:31 AM.

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#11 Guest_MrCatfish_*

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 11:32 AM

A tank that is 40Lx12Wx10H is 20 gallons. That would be a nice tank for darters. It would be hard to find standard lighting for a 40 inch tank. Since most lights are 20,24,36,and 48 inches you may won't to stick to one of these lengths. If you went with the measurements of a 20 long 36x12x12 you would be fine with the 12 inches of height. This would give you plenty of room for substrate. But if you are like me I would want to go with the custom look of a 40x12x10. And then buiuld my own lighting.

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#12 Guest_lgyure85_*

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:10 PM

I am increasing surface area (by lengthening the tank) and decreasing my depth. I am not too concerned about lights fitting, since I am going to hang (or otherwise suspend) the lights above the tank. It's going to be more of a vivarium, than an aquarium, since I'm going to have semi-aquatic plants, as well as fully-aquatic.

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#13 Guest_VicC_*

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:44 PM

For silicone I reccomend GE Silicone II. Most of it is fish safe and holds well. If it has an algaecide (Ones made for showers usually do) it's not safe.

I don't trust "Mold-Free" caulk.

see http://www.caulkyour...itchen-bath.php

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#14 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:57 PM

I am increasing surface area (by lengthening the tank) and decreasing my depth. I am not too concerned about lights fitting, since I am going to hang (or otherwise suspend) the lights above the tank. It's going to be more of a vivarium, than an aquarium, since I'm going to have semi-aquatic plants, as well as fully-aquatic.

I hope you have some sort of cover over the top to prevent the fish from escaping.

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#15 Guest_rickwrench_*

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 01:12 AM

Long and skinny... 6" front to back X 14" tall X 48" long.
That's about 17 gallons. Power head(s) or a big canister with a return plumbed to the other end.

The old garf calculator is still up, which makes glass cut plans a whole lot easier...
http://www.garf.org/tank/buildtank.asp

I'd consider low iron (aka "starphire") glass for the front pane, at least. A long skinny tank (any tank, really) will need a perfectly flat stand. And will need to be built on a perfectly flat work surface.

Glass is the easy part...

For silicone, you -could- use GE I - Door and Window (make sure the silicone doesn't have any mildew or mold inhibitors) as it is acetoxy cure. The big box store consumer level silicones are often "good enough" for small repairs. They do say "100% silicone" but you never know what else is added to the "100% silicone", or what kind of cure.

When I build/restore tanks, I use GE RTV-100 series (Momentive) silicone adhesives:
Clear - GE RTV-103
http://www.grainger....UH12?Pid=search
Black - GE RTV-108
http://www.grainger....UH10?Pid=search

Most custom glass tank builders use these two silicone adhesives.

All silicone is nearly the same price (except for shipping), but GE 100 series has three times the tensile strength (400psi, 450% elongation before failure) of the consumer grade GE I & II (GE I tensile strength 120psi, failure at 50%elongation). Iirc, GE II is also neutral cure, and has some solvents/petroleum distilates. Don't use GE II for aquariums.

GE will not say -any- of its silicone adhesives are for suitable for aquarium use, due to liability issues, btw.

Others Silicone adhesives commonly used:
GE 800 series.
Dow Corning 732, 832 or 999A.

For an "aquarium" branded silicone:
http://www.hitechgla...uct/42730/40344

We've come a long way since boiled oil and Gilsonite...

Rick

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#16 Guest_Doug_Dame_*

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 03:37 AM

Obviously, I am not going to commissioning one made, since this would cost way more than one from a store.

That might be obvious to you, but it could also be wrong.

GlassCages made a custom darter tank for me, and delivered it from TN to FL, for less than the price of a comparable gallon tank (of conventional dimensions) at the LFS or pet superstores.

Enjoy your darter tank, however you get it.