Setup questions

Hey ya'll. Your forum is great, just found it. Im setting up a fresh water native tank, and i'd like to incorporate the local (central SC) flora.
I'm not worried about acquiring specimens just yet, as I need to select the lights.
Ive got a standard 75 gallon, 48" long, something like 20" deep.
Can ya'll recomend a lighting set up?
I thought i was somewhat technically inclined, but the link on the "DIY Lighting" post wasn't much help, it seemed kind of vague.
Building the hood will be no problem, but what kind of lights do i put under it? The tanks position doesnt receive much direct sunlight. I was thinking about 4x48" shop lights with different spectrum bulbs, but is there a better solution?
What spectrum and wattage is appropriate?
The substrate ive placed is the layered mix of soil, fine sandy gravel, then pea sized and then larger peices on top as described in the other "new setup" post.
and also,
a fluval 405 is enough of a filter, isnt it? and what media can yall recommend?
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your help!
O

Welcome aboard!

You will find great company here. There are also a couple other people around Columbia SC that are great to talk fish with.

Your setup sounds perfect to me. I would definitely use the shoplight route, perhaps wiring the ballasts directly into your hood. I generally like to use a mix of cool and warm lights. This could equate to 2 "daylight" bulbs and 2 "kitchen and bath" bulbs. Depending on the spectrum, you may also find yourself using 3 daylight/1 kitchen, or similar. But I'd use 1 of each to start with. When you build the hood, paint the inside a glossy white to reflect the light back into the tank.

I don't bother with the specialty aquarium bulbs. They are a waste of $ in my mind. It's not that they're bad, but I get excellent results with much less expensive bulbs. Definitely don't use the "plant and aquarium" bulbs at Lowes/Home Depot. If you look, the improved spectrum is acheived at a cost of much lower lumens. I think they may simply filter out the unused spectrum, instead of adding anything beneficial.

Also, electronic ballasts can have benefits above the less expensive magnetic ones. If you find that you can't cram enough light into your hood (if for some reason you are needing really high light), you can overdrive electronic ballasts to get about 1.7 times the amount of light out of each bulb. This is essentially accomplished by wiring a ballast intended for 2 bulbs into only 1 bulb. I wouldn't start with this, but if you find that you don't have enough light later on, it gives more flexibility (if you are comfortable with wiring).

As far as the filter goes, I'm not sure what you have. I tend to like powerheads with foam jammed on the end. Nothing too complicated.

Have fun! Plants are great!

Thank you so much for your help! Im going to build it this weekend, and hopefully try to find a few plants to get started. Are you aware of any cold water resistant species in the region? Most of the ponds and bodies of water i plan on using are a bit chilly, and all the vegitation seems to be mostly dormant.
And also, is there a member directory that i can track down some other locals with?
I'd love to have a dedicated seining partener. (my friends just can't muster up the enthusiasm to go trudging thru murky swamp water up to their chests) The region has (in my opinion) a wide variety of different aquatic settings, and in my experience has produced some interesting finds.
Again, thank you for your help!

Welcome!

If you would like to find a seining partner, post in the local edition area in the "south" section. Let people know where you're from and I'm pretty sure someone will chime in.

Thank you so much for your help! Im going to build it this weekend, and hopefully try to find a few plants to get started. Are you aware of any cold water resistant species in the region? Most of the ponds and bodies of water i plan on using are a bit chilly, and all the vegitation seems to be mostly dormant.
And also, is there a member directory that i can track down some other locals with?
I'd love to have a dedicated seining partener. (my friends just can't muster up the enthusiasm to go trudging thru murky swamp water up to their chests) The region has (in my opinion) a wide variety of different aquatic settings, and in my experience has produced some interesting finds.
Again, thank you for your help!

There are LOTS of species in your region! But they do tend to be dormant this time of year. Just look about, and you will find things eventually. When spring comes around you'll find more. Once they are in your tank they will be a little warmer than outside right now (I hope!) and should grow well.

I'd send you some plants to get you started but I just moved and took only a sort of "Noah's Ark" approach to taking specimens with me. Hopefully I will have more soon.

If you do get your tank set up this weekend and want to turn on the lights, make sure you go to the pet store and get some cheap, quickly multiplying species that can take up space until you get your natives in. This will help reduce algae problems. Watersprite is one that comes to mind, as it is pretty easy to remove when you are ready. Some of the plants at the store are also native species, I prefer to collect wild ones instead of "domestic" stock. The wild stock do seem to be fussier, though.

Thank you so much for your help! Im going to build it this weekend, and hopefully try to find a few plants to get started. Are you aware of any cold water resistant species in the region? Most of the ponds and bodies of water i plan on using are a bit chilly, and all the vegitation seems to be mostly dormant.
And also, is there a member directory that i can track down some other locals with?
I'd love to have a dedicated seining partener. (my friends just can't muster up the enthusiasm to go trudging thru murky swamp water up to their chests) The region has (in my opinion) a wide variety of different aquatic settings, and in my experience has produced some interesting finds.
Again, thank you for your help!

Send me a PM. Dustin and I are both in the Lexington area.

Welcome aboard!

You will find great company here. There are also a couple other people around Columbia SC that are great to talk fish with.

Your setup sounds perfect to me. I would definitely use the shoplight route, perhaps wiring the ballasts directly into your hood. I generally like to use a mix of cool and warm lights. This could equate to 2 "daylight" bulbs and 2 "kitchen and bath" bulbs. Depending on the spectrum, you may also find yourself using 3 daylight/1 kitchen, or similar. But I'd use 1 of each to start with. When you build the hood, paint the inside a glossy white to reflect the light back into the tank.

I don't bother with the specialty aquarium bulbs. They are a waste of $ in my mind. It's not that they're bad, but I get excellent results with much less expensive bulbs. Definitely don't use the "plant and aquarium" bulbs at Lowes/Home Depot. If you look, the improved spectrum is acheived at a cost of much lower lumens. I think they may simply filter out the unused spectrum, instead of adding anything beneficial.

Also, electronic ballasts can have benefits above the less expensive magnetic ones. If you find that you can't cram enough light into your hood (if for some reason you are needing really high light), you can overdrive electronic ballasts to get about 1.7 times the amount of light out of each bulb. This is essentially accomplished by wiring a ballast intended for 2 bulbs into only 1 bulb. I wouldn't start with this, but if you find that you don't have enough light later on, it gives more flexibility (if you are comfortable with wiring).

As far as the filter goes, I'm not sure what you have. I tend to like powerheads with foam jammed on the end. Nothing too complicated.

Have fun! Plants are great!

Here is some pictures of a striplight I made using the spiral compact flourescent bulbs and a piece of guttering. This was built for a 4 foot long tank.


 Lightinside.jpg   48.57KB   4 downloads


 lightfront.jpg   30.31KB   2 downloads



Bill F.

Nice hood, Bill!

What plants are you growing under it, and what wattage are the bulbs? One thing I would worry about is that a lot of light could be lost due to the spiral nature of the bulbs - in a room they work great, but in a tank usually directional light is wanted. But it looks like a great job, with no extra ballasts required!

Nice hood, Bill!

What plants are you growing under it, and what wattage are the bulbs? One thing I would worry about is that a lot of light could be lost due to the spiral nature of the bulbs - in a room they work great, but in a tank usually directional light is wanted. But it looks like a great job, with no extra ballasts required!

Thanks! Right now I have some Najas, Corkscrew Val, Cryptocorne Wendtii, and a couple of other plants I am not sure of. I hope this summer to collect some native plants and see how they do. I presently have 4) 13W CFL which give of the equivalent of 60W incandescent. That puts roughly 240 watts of light on a 40 long or a 55 gallon. I agree that I might lose a small percentage to the spiral, but I can increase the reflection by lining the light with Mylar and increasing the 4 bulbs to 23W which is a 100 watt equivalent. That would give you 400W on the tanks above. That would more then make up for any loss. I also used 2 bulbs of the warmwhite and 2 of the cool white. More to see if plants would grow better under different light temperatures.

Bill

Thanks! Right now I have some Najas, Corkscrew Val, Cryptocorne Wendtii, and a couple of other plants I am not sure of. I hope this summer to collect some native plants and see how they do. I presently have 4) 13W CFL which give of the equivalent of 60W incandescent. That puts roughly 240 watts of light on a 40 long or a 55 gallon. I agree that I might lose a small percentage to the spiral, but I can increase the reflection by lining the light with Mylar and increasing the 4 bulbs to 23W which is a 100 watt equivalent. That would give you 400W on the tanks above. That would more then make up for any loss. I also used 2 bulbs of the warmwhite and 2 of the cool white. More to see if plants would grow better under different light temperatures.

Bill

I didn't know they were making warm and cool light compact fluorescents. I do think the plants grow better under a mix. When I was in grad school that was also the mix that was used in the incubators.

I didn't know they were making warm and cool light compact fluorescents. I do think the plants grow better under a mix. When I was in grad school that was also the mix that was used in the incubators.

Here is a website that list quite a few of the different sizes and temps of the compact flourescents. My warm whites are 3000K at least that is what is on the base. The one I called cool light is actually sold as a Daylight 60. Cannot seem to find what the color temp is of it.

http://www.1000bulbs...p?category=2086


Bill

Here is a website that list quite a few of the different sizes and temps of the compact flourescents. My warm whites are 3000K at least that is what is on the base. The one I called cool light is actually sold as a Daylight 60. Cannot seem to find what the color temp is of it.

http://www.1000bulbs...p?category=2086
Bill

One thing to note (for folks following along) is that color temp and spectrum are two different things. Color temperature is how the light looks to the eye. The spectrum behind this look can vary (differing intensities of different wavelengths). But generally, lower color temps are "warmer" and more red-looking, and higher color temps are "cooler" and more blue-looking. It can't be totally relied on for spectrum because, for example, a mid-temperature bulb can have either a wide or narrow spectrum.

Another interesting bulb factoid is the Color Rendering Index or CRI. This number describes how well the light makes colors look like they would in sunlight. Sunlight has a CRI of 100. The higher the number, the more natural colors will look. Lumens (brightness) are another important factor. Higher lumens = more light.

In terms of plant growth, color temperature and CRI are less important than spectrum and lumens. Some bulb websites will give the spectrum of their bulbs. If the info isn't available, color temperature and CRI can be used to make a guess to help choose a good setup. Generally, a combo of warm and cool lights gets a wide spectrum where the bulbs compensate for each other. Obviously, the total lumens is important if you have high-light requiring plants. Many pet-store varieties will do OK with lower light, but some of the wild stock can require very high light and total lumens can become very important.

Thanks for everyones advice. Hopefully, I followed it correctly. my final set up ends up looking pretty good,but im going to have to let the plants decide. ive got two 48" strip lights, two bulbs each. each one with a combination of max lumens and wide(i hope) spectrum (6500k 3050Ls, 4100k, 3150Ls) and then two incandescent fixture compact flourescent (6500k, 26watt) on clampable shoplights with metal reflectors on each end. It seems pretty bright, everything but "the cave" is well lit, and the plants (Ill work on IDing them later) ive managed to collect seem to be doing well.
While on the topic of plants, what is your advice on herbivorous specimens(in this case, a bulltapole and a few crayfish ive caught munching) and their diets? Is there a particular plant that youve found they prefer that I can supply so they spare the others? I notice that the sort of algale slime on some of the leaves seems to be a favorite, should i use a small acrylic tank to breed algae or will it overwhelm my system if introduced? I've also heard to try boiled lettuce.
Thanks again.
Owen

The tadpoles will be a fine addition to your tank, as their mouthparts are shaped to scrape algae and other gunk off the surface of rocks and leaves (they can also eat fish food). The crayfish will, unfortunately, work very hard to undo all your hard work. I would try to remove them as they can be voracious plant eaters/shredders. I keep crayfish in with our turtle as they both eat plants, and give them trimmings when I thin out the other tanks. In a few days, all the trimmings are eaten.

Keep an eye on the "algae slime" to make sure it doesn't get out of control. Native plants often require high light, but that also means that algae can take over if given a foothold. Try to plant your tank densely, to help use up nutrients and shade the bottom. If you don't have enough plants quite yet to do this, I'd go to the pet store and buy something to take up space temporarily. Watersprite is a good choice for this, as it grows very fast and is very easy to remove when you have enough native plants (no runners taking over).