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Juvenile Identification

Started by Michael Wolfe , May 06 2012 08:32 AM

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9 replies to this topic

#1 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:32 AM

I represented NANFA the other day at a stream clean up in north Atlanta. Johns Creek is a direct tributary of the Chattahoochee. We were only a 2-3 miles from where this trib empties into the Hooch. Had a nice day and got to preach a little NANFA and make a few connections.

We saw Golden Shiners, Yellowfin Shiners, Bluehead Chubs, Southern Studfish, Bluegill, and maybe a few more... but I did not really have anyone else that was interested in really working the seine.

Anyway, here is the one that I could not identify... some sort of juvenile... sorry for the lack of scale, but the fish was only about one inch. Was wondering if anyone is any good at ID on such a small juvenile... I see an underslung mouth and even from the head shape sort of thought some sort of Moxostoma? Whattaya think?
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#2 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:46 AM

I feel like they don't develop many distinguishing factors until they get to maybe 1.5-2 inches. I took home 2 suckers that looked identical to that a few years back when I was clueless as to the fact that they are big, hard to keep fish. One ended up being a white sucker, the other a redhorse of some kind or another.

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#3 Guest_NateTessler13_*

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 09:04 AM

That's a tough one, Michael. Typically when I encounter young-of-year Catostomids, they're white suckers in drainage ditches. This could be a young white sucker, however, you have a number of Moxostoma sp. out there (including some jumprocks, if I remember correctly). I'm not all too familiar with the identification of young jumprocks. My inclination is to call this one a white sucker.

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#4 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:18 AM

Interesting... I have never seen a white sucker here in Georgia... but of course I dont do much in teh Chattahoochee drainage, so maybe thats part of it.

Yes we have a few jumprocks down here (striped for sure and the non yet described brassy as well). But also plenty of Moxostoma... I knew it would be a long shot... but thought I would challenge the group here with a tough one!

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#5 Guest_Drew_*

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:57 AM

When I first saw the photo, I was thinking creek chubsucker (Erimyzon oblongus).

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#6 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:09 PM

Hmm. Tough one indeed. I've been lucky enough to help raise sicklefin and robust redhorse from larvae to 3'', and it isn't til the suckers grow another 0.5'' until you can really ID them from overall body shape/appearance with the naked eye without putting them under a scope. However, I have had to sort through a ton of ichthyoplankton the last couple of months for Catostomids we caught last spring and summer, and I'd be willing to say that your fish looks a lot more like Moxostoma (more specifically, notchlip redhorse (M. collapsum)) I've sorted. Of course, these fishwere from the Ogeechee (totally differnt drainage I know) where notchlips, spotted suckers, creek and lake chubsuckers, and the brassy and stripe jumprocks are present.
Even at that size, you could get magnifying glass and look at those lips (at least that way you could separate the jumprocks from the spotted suckers and notchlips). I know you don't have the fish now, but it is possible. It will be hard to confirm anything (all these suckers look similar at that size), but I'm putting my dollar on notchlip based on my short sucker-ID experience and the abundance of these fish when present.

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#7 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:36 PM

Uncle Wille, you know I want to believe you... but M.collapsum is not shown as being in the Chattahoochee drainage... at least according to Fishes of Georgia website range maps...???

But at least you are leaning towards Moxostoma...

I can now even go with the undescribed Appalachicola Redhorse :biggrin:

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#8 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

Yikes. You're right - no notchlips in ACF, only in the Atlantic slopes. Well, looks like it'll just have to be a mystery fish.

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#9 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 09:39 AM

It's not a chubsucker Erimyzon sp. for sure, they all have a distinctive dark black stripe down the side even at a very small size, I have some fry right now and they look like little cyprinids schooling up. I would also lean toward a Moxostoma sp.

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#10 Guest_njJohn_*

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:38 AM

I've had this one since a tiny fry. I thought I had scooped up a fathead minnow fry, now he grew into this. Still never got a positive ID.

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