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Sunfish ID

Started by Guest_Ghopper_* , Jun 04 2012 03:43 PM

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18 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Ghopper_*

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:43 PM

I caught this in a creek in Central Kentucky that flows into the KY river. I thought it was a central longear, but someone told me it wasn't. thanks

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#2 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:57 PM

I think it's a longear sunfish too. It's within the range and it looks like one, so... my vote is longear. What did this person say it was instead of a longear?

Edited by EricaWieser, 04 June 2012 - 04:59 PM.

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#3 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:42 PM

Looks within the limits for longear. Probably not as colorful a sample as many are for the central variety but still a longear.

Usil

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#4 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:48 PM

Looks within the limits for longear. Probably not as colorful a sample as many are for the central variety but still a longear.

Usil

Female

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#5 Guest_Orangespotted_*

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:49 PM

In my opinion it looks like the Green/Bluegill Hybrid stocked in ponds. Reasons: gold-cream edging around opercular tab (remniscent of green sunfish), white/orange pelvic fins (green), black anal fin with white/orange edging (green), green/orange flecks all over body (green), black mark on posterier end of dorsal (bluegill and some greens I think), not particularly long opercular tab for its size (non-longear), faint orange chest, and smallish mouth (bluegill). In short, it looks like a Bluegill's body with a Green's coloration.

But of course, I've been messing around with Bluegills and Greens all day today so I could just be having some de ja vu. If its not a greengill, that is certainly a different looking Longear

EDIT: Did the tail have a colored margin? It's kind of angled away.

Edited by Orangespotted, 04 June 2012 - 06:20 PM.

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#6 Guest_az9_*

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:58 PM

Looks to be some kind of hybrid to me if not mostly longear. It's tough to tell sometimes with sunfish that readily hybridize.

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#7 Guest_Ghopper_*

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 06:51 PM

EDIT: Did the tail have a colored margin? It's kind of angled away.

It was very faintly orange/cream

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#8 Guest_Orangespotted_*

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:18 PM

It was very faintly orange/cream

Okay, so I am pretty sure now that this fish was at least part cyanellus, while Longear x Green is a possibility I'm leaning more towards Bluegill x Green since that strain is commercially bred and stocked and is thus more common. Compare your fish to:

http://gallery.nanfa...ageViewsIndex=1 (Dave Neely's Greengill)

and

Posted Image

Phooey... hybrids are so variable; I can find lots of examples of hybrids that show features similar to your fish (small mouth, green/orange speckling, pelvic fin colors etc etc) but not totally all on the same fish, it's the luck of the (genetic) draw. On the other hand, I can't find any Longear that are matches either (especially on the pelvic fin color). I wish I could count those lateral line scales (of course who knows with hybrids if it will be within the ranges of their parents or something totally whacko).

Summary: Frustratingly hard to be 100% sure fish. Cool fish!

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#9 Guest_Ghopper_*

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 08:09 PM

Perhaps it is a bluegill-green sunfish hybrid. I caught this a couple miles upstream from fish hatchery, i don't know if kentucky stocks "greengills" or not, but could be an escapee

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#10 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:17 PM

With that white-edged opercular tab it's gotta be a longear.

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#11 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:11 PM

green sunfish x bluegill or greenfish x longear

green looking based on short dorsal spines and dark patches at base of rays in dorsal and anal fins. Mouth too small for straight green. Bluemarkings on opercula and pre-opercula consistent with hybrids involving green sunfish. Long opercular tabs say x bluegill or x longear. Lots of black on rays more typical of x bluegill.

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#12 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 09:59 AM

Centrarchid - I am having trouble seeing the picture. Does not display on my computer with IE or Chrome.

Usil

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#13 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 10:02 AM

Here is a hybrid Green and redear I raised. Big mouth is the givaway for Green mix.

Posted Image

Usil

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#14 Guest_MichiJim_*

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 10:49 AM

We have a lake near us that has green/pumpkinseed hybrids stocked in it. The first photo reminds me of them. When I first caught one, I thought it was a longear as well, but they were much too large and the habitat was not appropriate. And they just didn't look right. I kept one for a while and it got quite large and round in shape. More similar to a p-seed than anything else.

The naturally occuring sunfish in the lake are p-seeds, greens and warmouth. I haven't been back to this lake in several years. Sunfish are on the beds, I should be a able to catch a few and take a new look at them.

Now that I think about it, there is another pond that had "green-seeds" in it as well. We found them on a sampling trip. No history of stocking, but we captured no other Lepomis, so it probably happened at some point. Again, a long time since I looked at one of those.

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#15 Guest_Orangespotted_*

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:57 PM

i don't know if kentucky stocks "greengills" or not, but could be an escapee

A quote from http://www.kentuckya...g/Green_Sunfish :
"Green sunfish-bluegill hybrids are commonly sold as 'hybrid bluegill'"

And here: http://www.thefishsi...-hybrid-sunfish
"there is much interest in culturing hybrid sunfish commercially both for pond stocking and for food fish."

And finally http://www.ksuaquacu...gill,Hybrid.htm (Kentucky State University):
"In recent years the interest in culture of bluegill hybrids has increased greatly. Much of the attention has been focused on the hybrid produced when the male bluegill (Lepomis macrochirus) are crossed with green sunfish (L. Cyanellus)."

I'm thinking a little occam's razor here: it's there because someone put it there.

With that white-edged opercular tab it's gotta be a longear.

Green Sunfish can have white opercular tabs too: http://gallery.nanfa... by JZ.JPG.html

But more often you see them with a goldish hue or "layered" white and gold/orange/cream/yellow edging, like you see here:
Posted Image

Look close: it looks white, but the top part is goldish. Now look closely at Ghopper's fish: the inner part of the white edging is orangish. On this Green here too, you'll also see that orange/green body speckling that Ghopper's fish has. And compare the pelvic fins to Ghopper's.

Here is a hybrid Green and redear I raised. Big mouth is the givaway for Green mix.

But not always. Ghopper's fish has a smaller mouth, but so does this: http://media.photobu...ridBlueGill.jpg

and this: Posted Image

Here, maybe if everybody sees the mathematical piscatoral equation that I have in my head they will see what I'm seeing (and then maybe I won't seem so crazy!)

Bluegill:
http://www.freshwate...unfish-male.jpg

plus

Green
http://forum.nanfa.o...-1218131076.jpg

equals
http://forum.nanfa.o...attach_id=12407

Sorry I'm being so persistant, but it's driving me nuts how much I think that fish is a Green and Bluegill hybrid. ](*,)

Edited by Orangespotted, 05 June 2012 - 05:08 PM.

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#16 Guest_MichiJim_*

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:05 PM

O-spot, You don't seem crazy. Occam's razor carries a lot of weight in these discussions. If green X bluegill is the common cross in that is introduced in that area, then it is more likely that is what it is. Without a fish in hand, we are all speculating. In the case of lepomis hybrids, even holding the fish is not always lot of help. When I come across a hybrid, I first assume it was a hatchery product, so I check the stocking database to see what has been done in that water body. Pumpkinseeds are really common here in Michigan, sometimes moreso than bluegills. I don't think that holds farther to the south, but I don't really know.

These discussions are fun, but I think your logic is good.

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#17 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:30 PM

You are right. I popped a few greengills out of my pond tonight. They can be variable, but a couple were very similar to the fish in question. I was thrown by the small mouth, but after sampling my own hybrids..... Varying mouth sizes. Large is the norm, but a couple had BG mouths, and GSF fins.

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#18 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 11:29 AM

I have made all the hybrids mentioned in thread plus many more. Hybrids with the genus, usually involving green sunfish as female parent are produced and sold into locations where they get out into public waters frequently. Natural hybrids, especially involving greensunfish are not rare and can be locally abundant some years but be largely absent most other years. Swarms of hybrids do not require environmental pertubations.

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#19 Guest_butch_*

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:20 AM

Looks like a green hybrid that I regularly pulled out at few lakes. By the way, they do not have to be a hatchery product as the sunfish species do hybridizing naturally in the wild. Hybrids can out-numbered the pure parental species in some areas. You are right, green hybrids are highly variable as I've noticed that when I fished for these.