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I'm worried about my little buddy...

Started by Guest_Orangespotted_* , Jun 19 2012 09:08 PM

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9 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Orangespotted_*

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 09:08 PM

Hello everyone, I've been watching my new Orangespotted Sunfish for awhile, and after observing his behavior, I'm feeling slightly worried about his well-being. Here's the problem: I can't tell if Skittles (the name my little sister gave him) is just a fearless adult or showing a symptom of listlessness. I've been noticing his total lack of fear of me messing around in the aquarium for some time but I started becoming really worried (paranoid?) that something was wrong when he let me pluck out the small white grub that was in his dorsal fin. This wierded me out because the operation took place in the aquarium, without him wriggling around or trying to escape. It was sticking out on the other side but this gives you an idea of where it was:
Posted Image

The operation went like this: I tried getting him to move to the front of the aquarium by waving my hand about an inch behind him, but he wasn't budging (actually he just turned around and stared at my hand). Then, I tapped his tail with my finger, to which he moved a tiny bit but was basically still in the same place. Next, I basically shoved him to the front, so he waited till I was done moving him to go around my hand and return to his "spot". I did it once more and this time he stayed in the front, looking around/breathing/flapping his pectoral fins/staying midwater but otherwise not really moving from where I had put him. I grabbed the tweezers, and then tilted him to the side slightly to begin. Skittles still didn't react a whole lot to this with the exception of moving forward and backward a smidge and acting like it was a mild annoyance to him (don't really know how to put this into words). So, I plucked out the grub, and in the meantime he didn't try to swim away or anything while I did this (but it only took about 10 seconds). After that, I took my hands away from him and he righted himself immediately, swam a few inches towards the direction of his "spot", and stopped there. Finally, I squirted some hydrogen peroxide right onto the spot where the grub was with a small medicine syringe to make sure that it wouldn't become infected, and that was that.

Okay, the whole time I was doing this, I was moving my hands slowly and didn't actually "grab" Skittles as much as gently stabilize him, but nonetheless I was wierded out by his general lack of care of being touched and moved around. I thought he would just dart away from my hands the moment I moved too close to him, like a baby Bluegill. On the other hand, I have been hand feeding him frozen bloodworms, live waxworms, and live earthworms (lotsa worms!) for the past five or so days, so he could just be used to it (but he isn't taking any right now, I think I broke his trust). I've also been rearranging the plants and rocks but even when I got close to him he would just look at my hand like "what is this?" and otherwise not do anything. In fact, sometimes he was in the spot where I wanted to put a plant and I'd have to push him aside to get it there, he wouldn't really argue or swim away but would return after I was done.

Yet, I've noticed that adult fish tend to have different attitudes than little fish, such as a hyper baby Oscar compared to a lax adult, so maybe my mental comparison of Skittles to the two inch long Bluegills I babysat is not really fair.

Are you guys' adult sunnies as laid back, or do you think Skittles is sick?

(reflection: I sure am wordy aren't I?)

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#2 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:07 PM

Are you guys' adult sunnies as laid back, or do you think Skittles is sick?

I have been hand feeding him

The hand feeding is really the key here.

I think that even if he is sick it's not anything you can medicate for. Keep the water as clean as possible (ammonia 0 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, nitrate 40 ppm or less) and keep an eye on him for disease symptoms you can treat.

When I pulled anchor worms off of the only fish I've ever had who had anchor worms, female bettas, they fought like crazy when the tweezers got close. Maybe after half an hour they would stay still like you described but in their case that was a sign of fatigue and a very bad sign. Of course they had never been hand fed and were fresh from the pet store and from the big vat they were probably bred in. That was their first time seeing tweezers and they were freaking out because of how unfamiliar the situation was for them. Your fish was hand fed. He doesn't mind hands coming near him.

Some hand fed fish never get tame. My pygmy sunfish absolutely hate me despite me dropping worms in the tank every day multiple times a day. When I reach the tweezers with the worms into the tank they all spend the first thirty seconds hiding even though it's the same every time and every time it results in them getting worms. Taming for them is them tolerating your face staring at them long enough to come out of the plants and eat a worm. None of my Elassoma are tame enough to stick around if I reach my hand in.

The only fish I've had that are really still like you describe are my older bettas. Often when I would reach my hand into the tank they would swim into my arm or sit still as I scooped them up in a cup of water in my hand. For them that was just normal behavior; they didn't fear me and never had and being pushed gently to one side like you mentioned was just 'meh' to them and they'd continue their business. So the tameness and the 'proper' response of a fish to a hand really depends on the fish and what experience it has with human hands.

but he isn't taking any right now, I think I broke his trust

This part is the part that makes me worry he might be sick. Is he still eating well? If he's got a reduced appetite that's a really bad sign and you should do what you can to get him to eat. Tempt him with tasty things he loves, like live worms. They have to eat to get their strength back after recovering from an illness. Not eating is a fast track to death. I knew my chinchilla Abby was going to die when I put a piece of dried mango next to her face and she sniffed it and then laid her head back down

I had a swordtail that died of cancer one time. It was my fault; the genes I were breeding for it turn out cause melanoma 100% of the time (d'oh). He went from actively patrolling the tank, hooking up with the ladies and inspecting corners of the plants for food to listing at the top, wobbling diagonally as his pectoral fins fanned the water. He had a reduced appetite. There was this one female he chased around more than the others and she stayed a few inches from him, just hanging out near him, staying by his side. He grew a very large mass on his fin that turned out to be a tumor. Now that, that was listlessness. He would have still made attempts to get away from my hand but they would have been feeble, half hearted efforts that quickly exhausted him. It sounds like your fish is not this way.

In conclusion, I think you have a very tame but possibly ill fish (because you mentioned it's not eating from your hand any more). Things to look for: him not swimming straight, going slightly diagonal. A reduced patrolling of the tank, preferring to stay in one spot, especially in a low current place. Reduced appetite. Physical symptoms (fuzzy white stuff, opaque scale covering slime, cloudy eyes, lesions, opaque fins, shredded looking fins, bloody streaks).

Don't add any medications to the water until you see symptoms of a disease. Drugs, although better than letting a disease run its course when used to properly treat the disease they're intended for, do have side effects. If you've got a drug that has a side effect of 5% mortality and you use it to treat a disease that has 70% mortality, it's worth using. But if you're using that 5% mortality drug on a fish that doesn't even have the disease, then you're just increasing the risk without any of the gain. So don't medicate until you're positive of a disease diagnosis. Medications have consequences and should not be used except when you're positive of the diagnosis.

Just get him eating again and keep the water clean.

Edited by EricaWieser, 19 June 2012 - 11:14 PM.

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#3 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:09 PM

oh, and, I should add: he's absolutely gorgeous. It's hard to look at a fish that beautiful and think it's sick.

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#4 Guest_Orangespotted_*

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 11:42 AM

"Keep the water as clean as possible (ammonia 0 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, nitrate 40 ppm or less) and keep an eye on him for disease symptoms you can treat."

I usually change 10% of the water each week, and after I pulled out the grub I changed out 30% of it. I have no test kits but my tank is not smelly and looks like a jungle with all the plants so I highly doubt I have any poor water parameters in that sense.

"Is he still eating well?"

He just started eating again this morning. I offered him a waxworm and he took it with gusto.

"In conclusion, I think you have a very tame but possibly ill fish (because you mentioned it's not eating from your hand any more)."

That's nice to hear. I find it strange that he tamed down so quickly if that is truly what happened. After all, I caught him just last week on Monday. Part of me is still apprehensive; if there was a grub in his dorsal fin I hate to think how many there could be in Skittles' skin.

I would like to hear from others who own or have owned tame adult sunfish just to make sure Skittles' lax behavior isn't out of the norm.

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#5 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 06:52 PM

I love that little fish. I hope he does well.

Usil

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#6 Guest_decal_*

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:33 AM

That's pretty common. I have some bantam sunfish that come right up to my submerged hand, and I can pick them out of the water if so inclined. Even afterward they show only slightly more apprehension when I come near. I also had an adult OSS that was extremely skittish at the same time that I had a smaller one that behaved like yours.

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#7 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:45 AM

i had a dollar sunfish that would actually try to pry my hand open to get the bloodworms i held inside. he would rub up against my hand and investigate every time i stuck my hands in the tank to move or prune plants. he was my favorite fish, untill one day he decided to go carpet surfing while i was away...

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#8 Guest_Orangespotted_*

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 11:42 AM

Figured out what was wrong... he has ick. I was surprised to see the white specks, Skittles hasn't been scratching on anything, and I've never seen a native fish with ick before. I suppose caught it after being stressed out by the grub removal. Time to go buy some fish meds. :sad2:

Do any of you guys have any ideas for encouraging him to use a cave? His usual hangout is in the back in a clutch of plants but it doesn't look very comfortable back there... I put a piece of driftwood in there with lots of holes for him to hide in but he hasn't gone in there yet.

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#9 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:42 PM

Figured out what was wrong... he has ick. I was surprised to see the white specks, Skittles hasn't been scratching on anything, and I've never seen a native fish with ick before. I suppose caught it after being stressed out by the grub removal. Time to go buy some fish meds.

In my experience ich is not a disease but a symptom. I have never seen a 100% healthy fish catch ich. They only get it as an opportunistic illness after something else has gone wrong. Often the fish was previously stressed from a nonzero ppm ammonia or nitrite concentration. In your case it was probably the thing on his back that depressed his immune system.

Do any of you guys have any ideas for encouraging him to use a cave? His usual hangout is in the back in a clutch of plants but it doesn't look very comfortable back there... I put a piece of driftwood in there with lots of holes for him to hide in but he hasn't gone in there yet.

If the fish wants to go in the cave he'll go in the cave. Maybe he just doesn't like that cave in particular. Try a different one. You can make caves by using silicone to glue gravel to potable PVC pipe, by artistically cracking a terra cotta pot, by stacking slate and silicone-ing it together, etc. Try google image searching 'DIY aquarium cave'.

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#10 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:58 PM

on the other hand, your average sunfish environment has a lot more woody debris and plant growth and a lot fewer caves... you may think that a cave would be more comfortable... but that is not necessarily what the fish thinks... they are used to swiming through the grasses and weeds.

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