Just curious if anyone has ever tried keeping natives outdoors over the winter in large igloo coolers? They're pretty well insulated, and I can't imagine it would take an unreasonable amount of energy input to keep them from freezing up, at least in my neck of the woods (SE PA).A small window of plastic could be added to allow for a natural photoperiod. Seems it could be a way to condition natives for spawning. Anybody?
Coolers For Wintering Fish
Started by
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, Jul 19 2012 05:08 PM
10 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:30 PM
I don't know if I'd try that. We had a hard time keeping a hole in the ice in our five feet cubed pond. The waterfall was generally enough to keep the water open but one winter that waterfall flow slowed to a trickle and it was bad times for the fish in there. Although that was in Cleveland, Ohio. I guess the ease of keeping fish outdoors depends on the latitude.
#3
Guest_gunner48_*
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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:46 PM
I tried it and the results were poor. I live in Southern Ohio. The problem is the insulation only slows heat loss and being above ground and the top being off allowed the water to get just has cold has the outside temps. Ice formed on the top and the water that did not freeze got too cold for the fish to survive. I used some water pumps to keep the ice from forming but the water still got way too cold. If you wanted to go that route I would think you would need to bury a tub so that the warmth of the Earth can keep the temps up. You can get livestock tanks that might serve the purpose. I have used those in the summer time for easy to keep above ground ponds.
#4
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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:53 PM
Oh I didn't even consider not putting a heater in it.I tried it and the results were poor. I live in Southern Ohio. The problem is the insulation only slows heat loss and being above ground and the top being off allowed the water to get just has cold has the outside temps.
I still think it'd need a heater of some kind. Our 5x5x5 pond was in the ground and the fish didn't always survive overwinter. If the waterfall flow decreased and stopped breaking up the surface it froze over in no time.If you wanted to go that route I would think you would need to bury a tub so that the warmth of the Earth can keep the temps up.
I moved to North Carolina last year and the climate here is drastically different than what I was used to in Ohio. My heating bill was like <$200 for the whole winter. Possibly <$100 but I don't want to overestimate. It just doesn't get as cold here as what I'm used to, and if it does dip below freezing it's for 1-3 days and then it dips back up again. The problem here would be keeping fish alive in the summer. It gets really hot.
Edited by EricaWieser, 19 July 2012 - 05:58 PM.
#5
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:03 PM
Another big nope. Need at least a 3-4 foot hole in the ground to do this, or a nice cool attached garage.
#6
Guest_Subrosa_*
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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:44 PM
Considering that I'm not going to see temps below 0, it basically comes down to putting enough heat in to hold a volume of water about 35 F above ambient. Anybody know the heat loss co-efficient for an Igloo cooler? ](http://forum.nanfa.org/public/style_emoticons/default/eusa_wall.gif)
Edited by Subrosa, 19 July 2012 - 06:46 PM.
#7
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 19 July 2012 - 07:06 PM
The problem here would be keeping fish alive in the summer. It gets really hot.
Its not that big of an issue... week or so over 100F here in Georgia... and I didn't loose fish... except in the tank that I had a lot of circulation in... it got hot from top to bottom and killed some... but in the other tanks, the water at the bottom stayed cool and the fish were fine... Cyprinella shiners in one, top minnows in another... 100 gallon stock tanks sitting on the ground with afternoon shade and water lillies...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#8
Guest_exasperatus2002_*
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Posted 20 July 2012 - 08:28 AM
Im in allentown 18103. I dont think that would work but if you have an attached garage. I think that would. I have one & its always warmer in the garage then outside. I have to open the garage door to get in since theres no house enterance. Im thinking of trying to over winter some fish in there to try to breed.
#9
Guest_Subrosa_*
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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:59 PM
My garage contains my oil burner which also supplies my domestic hw, so it stays fairly warm in there in winter. I do have a laundry room that was originally part of the garage, and is thermally isolated from the rest of the garage and house. In the summer it's a drag, because water temps will hit 90 sometimes , but in the winter, because I use a woodstove for about 90% of my heat the baseboards rarely kick on. I've seen as low as the low 50s for water temps but low 60s is more usual.I keep most of my natives out there year round. I was hoping to be able to hold Darters, which I naturally keep in the main part of the house in summer, to recondition them for a second season of spawning. I can't imagine that I would need that big of a heater to be able to just keep 15 or 20 gal of water inside a closed cooler from freezing at the temps I'm likely to experience. 0 is a theoretical possibility, but I can't remember the last time it got that cold. Heck my Snapdragons survived last winter! I really wish I could find heat loss figures and see what the formula has to say.......
#10
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:23 PM
So Michael it looks like you're saying: DONT AERATE PONDS OR TUBS IN HOT WEATHER -- correct?
That's counter-intuitive for most of us, and I just wanted to make sure folks didn't miss it.
The thermal stratification you get in a pond or tub without aeration is critical for providing a cool refuge.
Make sure there's not too much decaying leaves and dead algae and crap on the bottom that will consume all the oxygen.
That's counter-intuitive for most of us, and I just wanted to make sure folks didn't miss it.
The thermal stratification you get in a pond or tub without aeration is critical for providing a cool refuge.
Make sure there's not too much decaying leaves and dead algae and crap on the bottom that will consume all the oxygen.
... week or so over 100F here in Georgia... and I didn't loose fish... except in the tank that I had a lot of circulation in... it got hot from top to bottom and killed some... but in the other tanks, the water at the bottom stayed cool and the fish were fine... Cyprinella shiners in one, top minnows in another... 100 gallon stock tanks sitting on the ground with afternoon shade and water lillies...
#11
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:47 PM
yes sir, that's the lesson I learned this summer...
I was trying to provide some current and a container of stones for a pond of yellowfin shiners (hoping to get some breeding or at least coloring up). So it was the only pond that had current. Back when it got up to 107 here several days in a row, I went out and saw three dead fish. I thought it odd as I had shiners in ponds for the last several years with no aeration or current and never lost any (certainly not three adults dead and floating in one day). Well I scooped them out and noticed the water was hot. Made me think, I wonder how cool it is on the bottom (knowing that it had always in the past been a refuge from the Georgia sun)... it was hot down there too. Scared me to think how hot it was. So I went to the tank right beside it with no pump or aeration and reached to the bottom... cool and refreshing (still hot on top)... and the shiners in that tank zipped around just fine, and still are. So that's my experience, and my conclusion is... here in the hot of Georgia, at lower stocking densities, plant shade and thermal stratification is my friend.
I was trying to provide some current and a container of stones for a pond of yellowfin shiners (hoping to get some breeding or at least coloring up). So it was the only pond that had current. Back when it got up to 107 here several days in a row, I went out and saw three dead fish. I thought it odd as I had shiners in ponds for the last several years with no aeration or current and never lost any (certainly not three adults dead and floating in one day). Well I scooped them out and noticed the water was hot. Made me think, I wonder how cool it is on the bottom (knowing that it had always in the past been a refuge from the Georgia sun)... it was hot down there too. Scared me to think how hot it was. So I went to the tank right beside it with no pump or aeration and reached to the bottom... cool and refreshing (still hot on top)... and the shiners in that tank zipped around just fine, and still are. So that's my experience, and my conclusion is... here in the hot of Georgia, at lower stocking densities, plant shade and thermal stratification is my friend.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
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