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Dusky or Highfin Shiner?

Started by Guest_moxostoma_* , Aug 03 2012 12:19 AM

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9 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_moxostoma_*

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:19 AM

I am seeking ID help with a shiner caught in the Lynches River in the coastal plain of South Carolina (at the Hwy 15 boat ramp near Sishipville). According to the references, highfin shiners (Notropis altipinnis) are more of a Piedmont/Carolina Sandhills species and generally don't occur in this reach of the Lynches River. For this and other reasons, I'm leaning towards Dusky Shiner (Notropis cummingsae), but would like another opinion. If you can't tell, it would be helpful to know if I'm on the right track and that this isn't an off-color coastal shiner or something else altogether.

Thanks!

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#2 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:07 AM

Color is faded out and cant see head or fin details well, but my guess would be N. petersoni, coastal shiner.

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#3 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:30 AM

I completely agree with Gerald here. That's a coastal shiner. The Lynches is fun, huh? Did you get fieryblacks as well?

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#4 Guest_moxostoma_*

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:04 PM

Thanks for the quick response guys! Dustin, we didn't get any fieryblacks at that spot, but my wife and I each caught brilliant fieryblacks from the Lynches under the highway 1 bridge (side channel) near Carolina Sandhills Wildlife Refuge a few weeks ago! Really cool fish. We also got some satinfins from the Pee Dee near the NC border.

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#5 Guest_moxostoma_*

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:42 PM

What do you think about this one? This fish is from Hollinshead Creek near Irmo, SC.

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#6 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 04:33 PM

That's another coastal shiner. In slow-moving blackwater streams they can get really dark and some even have reddish fins that you might confuse with taillight shiner at first glance. Note the black tip on lower lip. Spottail, taillight, and swallowtail shiners have no black on lower lip.

The satinfins you got in the PeeDee might include whitefins (nivea) too. More slender & longer snout than satinfin, and dorsal fin edge can be creamy-yellowish in big males. Satinfins get silvery-blue edging but not yellow, from what I've seen. Also compare the mouth angle: steeper angle in satinfin. All three Cyp's school together (satinfin, whitefin, fieryblacks). (Dustin and I love to debate on satinfin/whitefin ID's, so post some pics for us to argue about).

Edited by gerald, 04 August 2012 - 04:35 PM.

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#7 Guest_moxostoma_*

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 05:23 PM

Thanks Gerald.

Here are some of the satinfins from the Great Pee Dee River, and the last one is a prime fieryblack from the Lynches.

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#8 Guest_moxostoma_*

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 05:28 PM

By the way, I had been told before that the darker coastal shiner I posted (in post #5 of this thread) was a highback chub. However, I haven't been able to find any quality highback chub photographs other than the one in Freshwater Fishes of South Carolina by Rohde et al. 2010. Do you happen to know where I can find photos or this species, or can you describe how it would differ from the fish I posted above?

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#9 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 10:52 AM

I think you are correct that these are satinfins. I found some fish a few years ago in a trib of the Pee Dee that I was convniced were satinfins, but I am nearly positive they were whitefins now. They are very closely related but Gerald outlined the major differences. The lower fish in your 2nd coastal photos is still a coastal. The arc of the back is just an artifact of the way the fish is positioned in your hand. The distinct triangular caudal spot on these guys is a dead giveaway. Highbacks would be rare to non-existent in Irmo.

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#10 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 03:58 PM

I agree on the satinfins. Highback chub's mouth is more horizontal (not angled upwards), smaller and subterminal than a coastal shiner's mouth, and lacks the black tip on lower lip. For me the fish most likely to get confused with highback chub (juveniles) in the PeeDee basin is the whitemouth shiner Notropis alborus -- they both can have a glossy blue-black lateral stripe and small mouth. In adult highbacks the stripe fades and body and fins get orange pigment. Rohde's books (both his SC book and the older Carolinas-VA-MD-DE book have pics of non-breeding highbacks the way they usually look. The VA Fishes book and VA Tech Virtual Aquarium website shows adult males without the lateral stripe.