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South AL minnow ID

Started by Guest_Ize_* , Sep 28 2012 10:49 AM

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13 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Ize_*

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:49 AM

I caught (and released) this fish in the upper Escambia drainage in south-central AL.

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The inside of its mouth isn't black, so it's not an ironcolor shiner
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So I'm not really sure.

This second fish was caught in the same drainage in a different stream just a mile down the road. To me, it's a dead ringer for a dusky shiner, but they're not supposed to live there.
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Thanks in advance for any help.

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#2 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:08 AM

For that first one... seeing the color on the last few anal fin rays... I am thinking maybe weed shiner?

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#3 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:25 AM

The anal fin and the placement pf the dorsal fin have me thinking Lythrurus... maybe? Maybe a female Blacktip shiner Lythrurus atrapiculus?

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#4 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:47 AM

The first one might be a burrhead shiner, Notropis asperifrons.

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#5 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:45 PM

The second fish does look Lythrurus.

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#6 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:00 PM

The first one might be a burrhead shiner, Notropis asperifrons.

That's funny cause when I first saw him I thought Coosa... but I think that the fish was caught pretty far south for either Coosa or burrhead... right?

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#7 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 05:24 PM

Burrheads are found in all Mobile drainage rivers except the Tombigbee, usually above the fall line, and I think the exact position of the fall line is the issue here; I don't know in the case of the south Escambia although I'd guess most of it is below the fall line.

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#8 Guest_Ize_*

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 05:56 PM

Thanks for the suggestions.

Yeah, these were caught too far south to be burrhead or coosa. I've just looked very carefully over the weed shiner entry in "Fishes of Alabama" and the first fish matches up, so I'm going with that.

I looked into Lythrurus, and geographically, the only one it could be is the Blacktip Shiner (L atrapiculus). But the description in the book doesn't quite line up, and the illustration really doesn't (But I think the illustration is of a breeding male).

So, I'm still uncertain about the second fish.

Thanks

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#9 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:11 PM

I would like to add my opinion that the last fish is a Lythrurus of some sort.

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#10 Guest_Ize_*

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:53 PM

It seems there's a consensus of the last fish being a Lythrurus. The only Lythrurus in that area is L. atrapiculus (Blacktip Shiner). And they're supposed to be common there. If anyone could say for sure it was one,I'd be pretty happy with that.

The only issue is, the book says the outer parts of the fins should be dark, but they aren't on this fish. Otherwise, the description matches up.

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#11 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:00 PM

I read that too... how big was the fish? Maybe a juvenile?

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#12 Guest_Ize_*

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 07:37 PM

It was getting up close to two inches. This is a smaller one caught out of the same pool (I'm not sure what's up with the red in its eye, maybe a hemorrhage). This one is about half the size of the one above. But now that I look close at it, it's got a little bit of black on the tips of some of its fins.

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#13 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:30 PM

definitely has the dark tip on the dorsal... I am going to call this one a blacktip and the other one a blacktip female... I dont know if these Lythrurus are supposed to be sexually dimorphis, but these fish are very similar in every other way... same color orange-ish on the dorsal, same look to the caudal, same anal fin, and the same light colors on the top and bottom of the caudal peduncle.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin