I have been stumped by a very beginner problem so pardon my frustration. I have bought and returned 5 different aerators with "whisper" or "silent" in the name that were unable to force air through an airstone, not even 4" below the water's surface with the shortest possible tubing. Water siphons back up the tube. At the pet shop they took a model out of the box and had me feel the air coming out to "prove" it was working, but using their own tubing and airstone they could not submerge it and make air come out. Finally they cut the tube to just 8" and held it at the water's surface, and got bubbles to come out of the junction at the top of the airstone but not go through the airstone. And the pump was for a 55G! I was given the following excuses...
1. That I need a second powerhead for a 30G just to provide basic aeration. Baloney.
2. That the size of the tank determines the strength of the air flow. Baloney. All you need is working components to set up any configuration.
I had a very successful native tank which I was able to aerate using cheap little $8 air pumps off the shelf that were powerful enough to snake tubing all over the room, split up and power an undergravel system from the very bottom. I never reached the oxygen limit, it just wasn't an issue. Moving and having to start from scratch has led to this situation. In trying to recreate that setup I have found a powerhead by itself is not sufficient an aerator for more than a few small shiners from the creek, and some species it will not sustain at all. With 7 or 8 common, spottail, yellowfin shiners etc that seemed to be doing fine, I added just one more minnow and the oxygen "maxed out". They dropped like flies until I had just 4, and since then I haven't been able to add even one common shiner. I've kept more fish than this with just a working aerator by itself.
I've bought an older model like I used to have and even tried tracking down one that I gave away, and it's the same story. Someone recommended the Hailea brand which are not compatible with US electrical outlets, and the pumps bait shops use that are made of white PVC you have to hook up to a car battery, so I have eliminated literally every brand on ebay that is for tanks 30 gallons or less. I'd like to hear from someone who understands WHY so many models are too weak and what pumps are more than just two magnets rubbing together?
what aerator do you recommend?
Started by
Guest_lenrely_*
, Nov 21 2012 10:21 PM
18 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:03 PM
Well, it's been QUITE a while since I bought an air pump, so I can't speak to the current state of the market, but in the past both Whisper and, particularly the Tetra "luft" pumps have worked for me. They are both of the magnet type.
If you want a piston or blower pump you will pay big bucks and have lots of noise. You may wish to look at the pumps that are designed to aerate septic plants - they are cheaper than the same type of pump sold for aquariums, and they work well in deep water.
Just curious, in your home setup, if you blow (lung power) through the airstone, does air move freely through it? You should be able to do this with ease.
Something is very wrong here, this just does not make sense.
If you want a piston or blower pump you will pay big bucks and have lots of noise. You may wish to look at the pumps that are designed to aerate septic plants - they are cheaper than the same type of pump sold for aquariums, and they work well in deep water.
Just curious, in your home setup, if you blow (lung power) through the airstone, does air move freely through it? You should be able to do this with ease.
Something is very wrong here, this just does not make sense.
#3
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:25 AM
I agree with Irate, I think something is wrong. I have several of the Whisper model (started with one on the 75 that is in a den area in our house and the wife wanted the pump to be quieter) and they all put out plenty of air to run sponge filters and aerator stones or whatever. The one that says it is for a 40 gallon tank is running an air stone in my 75 right now (sitting below the tank in the cabinet pushing air up over the edge and to the full depth of the 75).
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#4
Guest_lenrely_*
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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:14 AM
Yes the tube and airstone passed the "blow test". Maybe it's the quality of mass-production itself that weakens them. The first time I took one apart I thought "this is it?". The space between the electromagnet and the smaller magnet was the only thing deciding the strength of the flow; there was almost no point in tinkering with it. It would be nice to have something with an actual motor or impeller, but for air.
#5
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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:27 PM
I have found the Tetra Whisper Deepwater Pumps AP-150 or AP-300 to have no problem pushing airstones 30 inches deep.
#6
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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:03 PM
I run a whisper 70 or 100? on my 55. The pump is below the tank and it runs a 12" stone which is along the bottom across the far left glass. It pushes air up to the top, then creates a current across the top where it hits the far right then back across the bottom to where the air stone is. But on my 65 tall it struggles. So the depth really chokes it. But a 55 long should be no issue.
#7
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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:04 AM
I like the "glass-bead" type airstones (Jungle, Aquatic Ecosystems, etc) better than those green or blue crumbly ones. I get much better air flow through them with low-pressure air pumps. They cost more, but they last much longer and will save the life of your pump diaphragms. Water with high mineral content will clog up airstones much faster than soft, low conductivity water. Even a straight piece of air tubing with NO airstone will eventually clog up with minerals and/or organic gunk that accumulates where air meets water.
#8
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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:08 PM
I've also had trouble with water siphoning back the tube, but only if I turn the pump off with the tube and stone still in the water. If I drain the tube and start the pump before submerging the stone, all seems to be well. I'm assuming though, that you are saying that it siphons back with the pump running? It's been years since I've used Whisper pumps so I can't even to pretend to know anything about them. Lately, I've been using Fusion brand pumps. I'm not really qualified to compare one brand to another, but these have been working for me.
#9
littlen
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Posted 17 December 2012 - 03:42 PM
lenrely,
Since your setup contains stream fish, why not just use a powerhead and attach the airline tubing directly to it so that it draws air from above the water line and mixes it with the recirculating water. Not only will you get the water movement your fish desire, but you will also oxygenate it at the same time. This defeats the need for an airpump, airstone, etc.
Warning--if you go this route, be sure to put some sort of strainer/sponge over the intake. A small darter/shiner will inevitably get sucked into it.
Example:
[img]http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.quickgrow.com/images_shop/41420_301_powerhead.jpg&sa=X&ei=RoHPUJCxGKex0AG20oGYDA&ved=0CAsQ8wc4gwI&usg=AFQjCNFb77iY-sMlTspwL8SGgLZEfsbG-A[/img]
Since your setup contains stream fish, why not just use a powerhead and attach the airline tubing directly to it so that it draws air from above the water line and mixes it with the recirculating water. Not only will you get the water movement your fish desire, but you will also oxygenate it at the same time. This defeats the need for an airpump, airstone, etc.
Warning--if you go this route, be sure to put some sort of strainer/sponge over the intake. A small darter/shiner will inevitably get sucked into it.
Example:
[img]http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.quickgrow.com/images_shop/41420_301_powerhead.jpg&sa=X&ei=RoHPUJCxGKex0AG20oGYDA&ved=0CAsQ8wc4gwI&usg=AFQjCNFb77iY-sMlTspwL8SGgLZEfsbG-A[/img]
Nick L.
#10
Guest_lenrely_*
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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:32 PM
Wow, I wish I had thought of that sooner. There is a visible difference between this combination and the air tube that just comes with the powerhead, so I'll see if it's enough. I'm reluctant to share my most recent attempt because I'm increasingly at a loss to describe the problem. I field-tested a Whisper pump which was able to blow air through a 6" long airstone, brought it home and although it did make bubbles come out, I swear it did not have the same strength in my 30G that it did in the pet shop's 100 gallon mini pond. With the aerator and powerhead both running I added 5 common shiners from the creek, and over the course of 3 days watched them one at a time start gulping at the surface and then die. I could consider the difference in water temperature this time of year, but I can't equate this with the tank I had before that had big chubsuckers, redhorse, a carp, even a shad, with just a powerhead and cheap aerator. Is it because the tank was bigger? Having an 02 guage would make all this experimentation unnecessary, you can hold all equipment to one standard and not gamble.
#11
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:30 PM
Wow, I wish I had thought of that sooner. There is a visible difference between this combination and the air tube that just comes with the powerhead, so I'll see if it's enough. I'm reluctant to share my most recent attempt because I'm increasingly at a loss to describe the problem. I field-tested a Whisper pump which was able to blow air through a 6" long airstone, brought it home and although it did make bubbles come out, I swear it did not have the same strength in my 30G that it did in the pet shop's 100 gallon mini pond. With the aerator and powerhead both running I added 5 common shiners from the creek, and over the course of 3 days watched them one at a time start gulping at the surface and then die. I could consider the difference in water temperature this time of year, but I can't equate this with the tank I had before that had big chubsuckers, redhorse, a carp, even a shad, with just a powerhead and cheap aerator. Is it because the tank was bigger? Having an 02 guage would make all this experimentation unnecessary, you can hold all equipment to one standard and not gamble.
If you have had issues with multiple pumps and it seems that the behavior of at least one of them appeared to be different from the pet store to your house, could you possibly have an electrical issue?
#12
littlen
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:25 PM
How deep are you trying to put your airline? Depending on what shape your 30 gallon is ('High', 'Breeder', 'Standard', etc) it can be anywhere from 12" to 24" deep. If your tank is a 'High' for example, your airpump may not have the capacity to push air down to those depths due to water pressure in the hose. Same applies for using the powerhead/airline option that I mentioned. The deeper you place your powerhead, and the longer the airline is (going all the way to the surface) the more difficult it will be for the pump to drawing any air. Again, this is also dependent on how strong your powerhead is. How deep did you put your airstone when you 'field tested' it, and tested it in the 100 gallon at the pet shop? Post a picture of your set up so we can see what's going on. This is far too simple of a problem to be giving you this much difficulty.
Nick L.
#13
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:24 PM
Fish gulping at the surface and dying doesn't necessarily mean not enough aeration. Ammonia, nitrite, gill parasites, bacterial infection, ... lots of other things could have killed the shiners.
#14
Guest_lenrely_*
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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:04 PM
I know it's far too simple a problem. Let me say this again, my old tank had everything this one has including greater depth and the airstones were stronger at the bottom of that tank than they are at the surface of this one. Gerard, after watching fish for years it's hard to put in words everything you can see in their behavior. Ammonia or gill parasites are not the cause of a fish that dies the same day it is introduced to a tank from the wild, just as shock is not the cause of death after a long acclimation or starvation within the first couple of days. The signs of O2 deficiency are a fish that normally hides or stays at the bottom changing its behavior as if it thinks it has to stay in the current even at night, this happening one fish at a time as the level adjusts to the population until it stops at the number it can support, and that number being consistent each time, happening to certain species while others remain unaffected, and occurring when there is a visible problem with the air flow. There are no beginner oversights here, I just don't have an O2 meter. Speaking of which does anyone have a good one?
PS- I will post a pic but assume for a moment there is nothing to see. You submerge the stone and big bubbles come out of the junction instead of a torrent of little bubbles coming out of the stone. I use a multi-outlet so I tried removing it and didn't notice a change. My 3 golden shiners seem friskier with this configuration so I'll try adding one minnow at a time.
PS- I will post a pic but assume for a moment there is nothing to see. You submerge the stone and big bubbles come out of the junction instead of a torrent of little bubbles coming out of the stone. I use a multi-outlet so I tried removing it and didn't notice a change. My 3 golden shiners seem friskier with this configuration so I'll try adding one minnow at a time.
#15
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:20 PM
What kind of filter are you using?
#16
Guest_pylodictis_*
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:39 PM
I know it's far too simple a problem. Let me say this again, my old tank had everything this one has including greater depth and the airstones were stronger at the bottom of that tank than they are at the surface of this one. Gerard, after watching fish for years it's hard to put in words everything you can see in their behavior. Ammonia or gill parasites are not the cause of a fish that dies the same day it is introduced to a tank from the wild, just as shock is not the cause of death after a long acclimation or starvation within the first couple of days. The signs of O2 deficiency are a fish that normally hides or stays at the bottom changing its behavior as if it thinks it has to stay in the current even at night, this happening one fish at a time as the level adjusts to the population until it stops at the number it can support, and that number being consistent each time, happening to certain species while others remain unaffected, and occurring when there is a visible problem with the air flow. There are no beginner oversights here, I just don't have an O2 meter. Speaking of which does anyone have a good one?
PS- I will post a pic but assume for a moment there is nothing to see. You submerge the stone and big bubbles come out of the junction instead of a torrent of little bubbles coming out of the stone. I use a multi-outlet so I tried removing it and didn't notice a change. My 3 golden shiners seem friskier with this configuration so I'll try adding one minnow at a time.
Have you tried it across the home or somewhere outside of your house?
#17
littlen
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:41 PM
I don't think Gerald was implying that you are overlooking some sort of rookie mistake. As a matter of fact, he may be on to a good point. Fish can succumb to bacteria/parasites, or poor water quality one at a time. On the other hand, if you truly have an oyxgen defiiciency--you would notice all of the fish, at the same time, up near the surface gulping air where the O2 concentration would be highest. (Not just one at a time). So I'm thinking there may be other factors in addition to low levels of dissolved O2.
Have you tried another airstone? Old ones get clogged up with calcium deposites and other organics. It may be so clogged that your pump may not be able to push any air through it.
Another thought--if you're collecting fish from the wild (depending on where in the country you are) you water temps, and subsequent levels of dissolved O2 are going to be much different than your ambient temp tank water. That added stress on the fish could certainly be enough to quickly lead to their demise. Have you checked the water parameters recently?
Have you tried another airstone? Old ones get clogged up with calcium deposites and other organics. It may be so clogged that your pump may not be able to push any air through it.
Another thought--if you're collecting fish from the wild (depending on where in the country you are) you water temps, and subsequent levels of dissolved O2 are going to be much different than your ambient temp tank water. That added stress on the fish could certainly be enough to quickly lead to their demise. Have you checked the water parameters recently?
Nick L.
#18
Guest_lenrely_*
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:14 PM
>>What kind of filter are you using?<<
There is no mechanical filtration, which might sound odd but for the purposes of finding out what is wrong I'm trying to keep things simple. I use water from the creek for all water changes and cleanings. Several years ago I had a 20G turtle tank with such good biology there was NO visible waste and NO filtration, that was one step in my journey to recreate habitats using only wild elements, so the 75G I had much success with had no filtration either although it looked very much like pond water. Having to start from scratch and seek pet shop advice had been a bit unnerving.
I put things back the way they were to take this photo. Although the aerator on top of the tank works when combined with the powerhead as Nick suggested, you can see nothing is coming out of the airstones at all now. The second pic is of the same tank before this debacle. More fish, less water, no aerator needed.
There is no mechanical filtration, which might sound odd but for the purposes of finding out what is wrong I'm trying to keep things simple. I use water from the creek for all water changes and cleanings. Several years ago I had a 20G turtle tank with such good biology there was NO visible waste and NO filtration, that was one step in my journey to recreate habitats using only wild elements, so the 75G I had much success with had no filtration either although it looked very much like pond water. Having to start from scratch and seek pet shop advice had been a bit unnerving.
I put things back the way they were to take this photo. Although the aerator on top of the tank works when combined with the powerhead as Nick suggested, you can see nothing is coming out of the airstones at all now. The second pic is of the same tank before this debacle. More fish, less water, no aerator needed.
#19
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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:58 PM
I'd be surprised if you can can get enough nitrifying bacteria growing just on the rocks, glass and other surfaces, with no biological filter media, to process all the ammonia from a dozen Clinostomus -- those things are absolute pigs IME. Not impossible, just highly improbable, and unreliable. If you're really committed to a system with no biological filter and no fast-growing plants, then you at least ought to be testing ammonia and nitrite levels. "No visible waste" is no proof of good water quality,
Edited by gerald, 19 December 2012 - 06:59 PM.
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