I have heard that cool water tanks and tropical tanks have different kinds of beneficial bacteria. Is there any truth to this? Also will "seed" bacteria from my tropical tanks work to help cycle my native tank faster when I get it set up? Thanks in advance for your help!

I believe this is somewhat true, but I bet there is enough overlap in bacteria that seeding will still be very helpful. You are only talking about 20 or so degrees difference. Bacteria are very resilient, and adaptable.

Yes, the bacteria will survive.

Nitrogen converting bacteria live gripping onto surfaces, not floating around in the water column. If you put a sponge in the filter box of your established tank now, its large surface area will gradually get colonized by the bacteria. When your new tank is ready you can transfer the sponge over. The new tank will most likely be completely 'cycled' by the presence of the bacteria on the sponge. You should still measure ammonia for two weeks after setup, but I doubt you'll see a peak.

If the transfer fails and you start to get measurable ammonia (or if you're one of the people reading this who doesn't have an established tank available to stick a sponge in the filter of), well, it's only $10 to $20 for a bottle of API Quick Start. There's no reason to wait for a tank to be cycled in this day and age of bottled bacteria.
More info: http://cms.marsfishc...ience sheet.pdf
Just to give you an idea of exactly how resilient these bacteria are: that product is marketed for both fresh and salt water. I guess the beneficial bacteria are unphased by the dramatic difference in salinity.


Also, it wouldn't be a post by me without saying that I prefer plants to beneficial bacteria. I discuss why in this topic: http://forum.nanfa.o...in-55-gal-tank/
Plants eat both ammonium and nitrate. They can reduce or completely eliminate water changes.

Edited by EricaWieser, 05 December 2012 - 06:43 PM.

SeaChem Stability works well too.

well, it's only $10 to $20 for a bottle of API Quick Start. There's no reason to wait for a tank to be cycled in this day and age of bottled bacteria.

Well, I'm old school myself. I don't trust that newfangled gook you pour out of a bottle. Plus, I can spend the money on...boollits or something. Food. Alcohol. Delayed gratification has its benefits. Mainly, it's cheaper.

Well, I'm old school myself. I don't trust that newfangled gook you pour out of a bottle. Plus, I can spend the money on...boollits or something. Food. Alcohol. Delayed gratification has its benefits. Mainly, it's cheaper.

Plants are the cheapest, 'cause they actually make you money. And you can add fish the first day of setup if you add plants.

Aquatic plants, then, are much more than ornaments or aquascaping tools. They remove ammonia from the water. Furthermore, they remove it within hours (Fig 1, Table 2). When setting up a planted tank, there is no need to wait 8 weeks to prevent ‘new tank syndrome’. (Nitrifying bacteria require several weeks to establish themselves in new tanks and make biological filtration fully functional.) Thus, I have several times set up a new tank with plants and fish all on the same day.

more info:
http://www.theaquari...ical_Filtration

Edited by EricaWieser, 07 December 2012 - 08:00 AM.

i have tested API quickstart. it works. just be sure to get a bottle that isn't more than about 6 months old.

that said, it isn't instant. it still takes about a week or two to eliminate all ammonia.

I can't tell you what to do or what not to do, but if it were my tank, I'd seed bacteria from a tropical tank, drop fish in, and roll with it. I wouldn't jam pack it with fish right off, and feed lightly for a little while, but I'd be pretty comfortable jump-starting it that way. That is, if we're not talking about a jump from 85* water to 50* water. I think that might be a little drastic.

You could always fishless cycle with your own pee. That's a fun party trick.

A trick I use is to maintain either a sponge filter or rear-mounted box filter in a tank that is well fed. When starting a new tank, after water has aged and temperature has equilibrated, I clean the spong filter or cartridge in the new tank. This will dislodge bacteria of all sorts, not just those involved with nitrification, which reduces odds of new tank syndrome developing and speed process of cycling.

New tank water will be briefly sullied but that will clear up rapidly. When doing so I can start new tank with higher fish load immediately. Care still given to monitor water for levels of ammonia and nitrite.

A trick I use is to maintain either a sponge filter or rear-mounted box filter in a tank that is well fed. When starting a new tank, after water has aged and temperature has equilibrated, I clean the spong filter or cartridge in the new tank. This will dislodge bacteria of all sorts, not just those involved with nitrification, which reduces odds of new tank syndrome developing and speed process of cycling.

New tank water will be briefly sullied but that will clear up rapidly. When doing so I can start new tank with higher fish load immediately. Care still given to monitor water for levels of ammonia and nitrite.

This is good advice for anyone keeping multiple tanks. When I was keeping a lot of tanks, I always kept extra sponge filters running in various tanks. If I wanted to set up a new tank, I would simply transfer a couple of sponge filters into the new tank, and instant cycle.

This is good advice for anyone keeping multiple tanks. When I was keeping a lot of tanks, I always kept extra sponge filters running in various tanks. If I wanted to set up a new tank, I would simply transfer a couple of sponge filters into the new tank, and instant cycle.

I agree, but I want to add a caveat. I have two of the Walmart $2 Paradiso synthetic sea sponges in my hang on back filter. I used to offer one to people setting up new tanks, provided they brought me a new one so I could replace the one in my filter. The idea was that they would get all the bacteria living on the sponge and I would be helpful without having to go out of my way and go buy myself a new sponge. Well, someone took me up on my offer and she came by with a bucket and I put some tank water and the sponge in. We treated it as if it were a fish; kept it submerged in tank water during the move, and she put it in a tank that had old water in it that was no longer chlorinated. It didn't work.

At first I scratched my head and was like, "?" "Why didn't that work? It was supposed to." But then I realized that my tank has lots of live plants in it. (picture: http://gallery.nanfa...er/008.JPG.html )


The most likely explanation I could come up with is that the plants have outcompeted the beneficial bacteria for ammonium. There isn't a large bacteria population in the filter sponges because there isn't a lot of ammonia floating around for them to eat. It's just like how a new tank doesn't get cycled unless you add fish flakes (an ammonia source) every day. My tank is like that new tank before you start adding fish flakes; it's nitrogen barren and there's just not enough food to sustain a population of nitrosomonas bacteria. The reason why I think this is true is because no matter how long I wait between water changes (a month, two months, etc), the water never accumulates nitrate. It's always in the lowest range that my test kit can test for, never reaching the 30 ppm that would induce me to perform a water change. So that means these plants are eating all of the available nitrogen.

My point? Sponge transfers only work in non-Walstad style tanks.
If your tank is plant filtered: the sponge may be in the tank and the tank may be very well established, but there might be nothing living in the sponge.

Edited by EricaWieser, 13 December 2012 - 06:56 PM.

At one point in time I had roughly 3000 gallons worth of native tanks in my basement. None were heavily planted, and most were bare bottom. And these were large air operated sponge filters, not a sea sponge set inside a filter. So my situation was very different.

Depends on the fish load and how much you feed. A tank full of gluttonous shiners, chubs and Lepomis would probably yield plenty of ammonia for both the plants and nitrifying bacteria. Your Elassoma and Heterandria aren't much of an ammonia source. One other comment on moving a sponge filter: I let most of the water run out of the sponge and then put in in a plastic bag, so it's wet but also full of air. If it IS full of bacteria (yours probably wasn't) it might get anaerobic sitting in warm water for several hours with no flow through it.

There isn't a large bacteria population in the filter sponges because there isn't a lot of ammonia floating around for them to eat. .... My point? Sponge transfers only work in non-Walstad style tanks. If your tank is plant filtered: the sponge may be in the tank and the tank may be very well established, but there might be nothing living in the sponge.

Seconding the suggestion for API Quick Start. I was a bit skeptical about its effectiveness, but between the addition of the bacteria culture and some light planting, I'm seeing great parameters in my tank just 2 weeks into the cycle. I'm running a 30 gallon setup. Currently I've just got two blackspotted topminnows and a redspotted sunfish(juvenile) in the tank. When I feel more confident about the tank fully cycling, I plan on adding some redfin shiners and southern redbelly dace. (maybe some golden topminnows as well, I know a good spot to collect them nearby)

One thing to note, you will likely see a bacteria bloom 24hours following the addition of the bacteria culture. This should clear up fairly rapidly(a day or two). I waited until after this bloom to add my fish, but I'm not sure if it's even necessary to wait.There is a lovely culture of bacteria on my filter now, and the initial bacteria bloom has totally cleared up.