Hi, all!
My parents have lived on Lake Greenwood, SC for several years now, and my wife and my daughters and I were lucky enough to do so for a couple years, too. Late every summer baitfish will move into the cove. For a long time I was content to watch the large patches of feeding frenzy ripples they put on the surface of the lake, as well as the frequent abuse they took from hungry predators above and below the water.
This past summer the baitfish and their predatory entourage approached much closer to shore than usual. My daughters and I decided to get a better look at these fish, and after legally trapping some we found they were cyprinellas, either satinfins, greenfins, or whitefins. None of those appeared to be listed species in SC, so we kept 8 of them. The only free tank we had was a 55 gallon, into which they were moved. We lost 2 early, but the remaining 6 are thriving.
So here's the thing... The 55 has capacity to support a few more fish and I'd like to add some. But one of the things I love about these cyprinellas is that they act like wild fish. When food hits the surface, they create the same ripples on the surface of the tank they did on the cove. When there's no food on the surface, they work the substrate in a loose pack, just like the girls and I watched them do when they were close to shore. They display and spar, make "breedy-looking" runs along crevices in rocks, have retained their checkerboard scaling, black dorsal blotch, and beautiful electric-pastel blue fin edging. In general, they are just a joy to watch. No matter what, I want my cyprinellas to stay cyprinellas.
What are your thoughts regarding community v. single species tanks? Are there combinations of natives that will act naturally together, rather than just not attack each other? Thrive as opposed to merely adjust to each other? Any suggestions for tankmates that would not alter my shiners' behavior? Would it make more sense to move them to another tank so as to free up the 55 for a planned community tank? What would be the smallest tank that would still encourage natural behaviors such as seen in the 55? Would creating different microhabitats within the tank allow fish to "be themselves"? Would they even be used? Any suggestions for native fish that stay true to type in community settings? I'd love to do a darter set up, but wonder if I'd be in the same boat I am with the cyprinellas. I realize wild fish don't live in a vacuum, and many have interactions with numerous other lifeforms. But in the confines of the average home aquaria, can natives truly display their inherent behaviors if coexisting with other creatures.
I realize this is a shotgun question, so while I am interested in responses specific to my shiners, any and all observations/experiences regarding the merits and shortfalls of single species/community tank setups would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Matt
Can natural behavior be observed in a community tank?
Started by
mattknepley
, Jan 10 2013 07:55 PM
26 replies to this topic
#1
mattknepley
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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:55 PM
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#2
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:05 PM
I on purpose only keep fish in aquariums where they can act as they would in the wild (minus the whole getting eaten by predators part). Every fish tank I maintain and have maintained for the past few years has been designed with this goal in mind. You have to ask: what would this fish spend the most hours of its day doing in the wild? How would it live out its life? What sort of setup would it need to breed naturally?
I have two setups right now. One is a 55 gallon planted freshwater tank. It used to have Elassoma gilberti but something happened and I don't know why, but the babies weren't making it. So now it is a community tank with heterandria formosa and guppies in it. H. formosa and guppies are both active diurnal livebearing foragers. They go about their day bebopping around, mouthing things looking for food, chasing females around or being chased by males, schooling up with others briefly and then dispersing, and generally la-de-da-ing. The one difference between them is that H. formosa males hate one another and will fight. Not ferociously or anything, but they definitely don't school. When they see one another they raise their dorsal fin and one chases the other. Male guppies don't seem to mind their own kind.
You can see the male H. formosa chasing away another male near the end of this video:
The brazilian pennywort at the surface is placed there because in the wild, H. formosa are often found in quite shallow water. This pennywort allows them to be at the surface and feel more comfortable without me having to make a shallow region of the tank.
The two species do benefit from one anthers' presence. Heterandria formosa is very shy. When an H. formosa sees a guppy juvenile, naturally quite gregarious and trusting, swim out from amongst the plants out into the open, well, the H. formosa follows. If this fish which is smaller than itself is not getting eaten, it must be safe out there. The guppies also benefit from the heterandrias' presence. Guppies in an all adult tank tend to eat the first batch of babies they give birth to more than they do the later batches. The first time they eat a small darty thing, they pounce. But H. formosa are slightly too large for an adult guppy to eat. After their initial chase and attempt to swallow fails, the guppy gives up a little bit inside. Its next chases are only half hearted, and when it fails to eat the small darty thing (in this case an H. formosa), it eventually gives up chasing small darty things altogether. The presence of the H. formosa and any surviving juvenile guppies protects the very smallest guppies who are newly born. That's why the guppies and the heterandria formosa make a good community tank setup; both benefit from the presence of the other. Also, neither eats the other. And they both eat the same foods: flakes, grindal worms, microworms, and Ken's Golden Pearls.
The other setup I have is a 75 gallon saltwater planted macroalgae tank. It's a species tank. There is a pair of synchiropus splendidus (mandarin dragonettes) in it. They spend most of their day foraging in the wild, so I set up the tank for them to be able to do that. The presence of other fish might startle them and prevent them from coming out and foraging, so I leave these two fish as the only fish in the tank, even though they're just three inches long and it's a four foot long 75 gallon tank. That's what I did for my Elassoma gilberti, too; kept them in a species only tank. They are more likely to come out of hiding when not scared by larger fish.
The tank is full of the tiny copepods the mandarins call prey.
In the wild they hang out with others of their own kind, breed weekly, and have a lifespan of 10-15 years. This is a native fish forum, not a mandarin dragonette fish forum, so I won't say more, but the pair is becoming fatter. I expect them to spawn soon.
I will say that it is important to consider what the animal does for most of the hours of its waking life. For example, mice spend most of their waking hours nesting. They love to nest. Give them an egg carton and some cardboard and paper products and they will turn into little architects, building their own little home. Deprive them of nesting materials, though, and they start to go a little bit insane. They fight more, and sometimes they chew off their own or others' hair. This is called barbering, and it's a stress behavior. It's not good. They start to get OCD, moving in the same exact figure 8 pattern around and around their cage. Again, not good. Obsessive compulsive mice are not completely sane. I've seen the same behavior in fish, tracing a circle again and again with their noses on the glass. moving in the same motion over and over and over. It's not good. It means they're so bored that they're starting to go insane. Environmental enrichment is really, really important. Think about what the animal would spend most of its time doing in the wild, and give it the ability to do that in its cage. I give my chinchillas different things to chew on. Grape vines, willow branches, hay, seagrass, loofah, pumice, wood, branches. Put the tastiest thing inside a container of less tasty things, like cardboard. It'll take time for them to get the treat out from the middle. That's time they won't spend chewing their own hair off.
Fish are very much the same as any animal. They have behaviors they do in the wild. If deprived of the ability to enact those behaviors in the home aquarium, they perform other, different behaviors. These stress behaviors like figure 8 swimming are not healthy. It's best to figure out what the animal would spend the majority of its time in the wild doing (foraging? Chasing females?) and give it the opportunity to spend its time doing that.
I have never kept shiners but I would imagine that a powerhead would enrich their lives greatly. In the wild they must enjoy playing in the current of the riffles they live in. I doubt that the presence of darters would interfere with the cyprinellas being cyprinellas. But they might eat the eggs. Have you thought about breeding your shiners? There was a pretty good discussion just recently about that. Link: http://forum.nanfa.o...-chromosus-fry/
I have two setups right now. One is a 55 gallon planted freshwater tank. It used to have Elassoma gilberti but something happened and I don't know why, but the babies weren't making it. So now it is a community tank with heterandria formosa and guppies in it. H. formosa and guppies are both active diurnal livebearing foragers. They go about their day bebopping around, mouthing things looking for food, chasing females around or being chased by males, schooling up with others briefly and then dispersing, and generally la-de-da-ing. The one difference between them is that H. formosa males hate one another and will fight. Not ferociously or anything, but they definitely don't school. When they see one another they raise their dorsal fin and one chases the other. Male guppies don't seem to mind their own kind.
You can see the male H. formosa chasing away another male near the end of this video:
The brazilian pennywort at the surface is placed there because in the wild, H. formosa are often found in quite shallow water. This pennywort allows them to be at the surface and feel more comfortable without me having to make a shallow region of the tank.
The two species do benefit from one anthers' presence. Heterandria formosa is very shy. When an H. formosa sees a guppy juvenile, naturally quite gregarious and trusting, swim out from amongst the plants out into the open, well, the H. formosa follows. If this fish which is smaller than itself is not getting eaten, it must be safe out there. The guppies also benefit from the heterandrias' presence. Guppies in an all adult tank tend to eat the first batch of babies they give birth to more than they do the later batches. The first time they eat a small darty thing, they pounce. But H. formosa are slightly too large for an adult guppy to eat. After their initial chase and attempt to swallow fails, the guppy gives up a little bit inside. Its next chases are only half hearted, and when it fails to eat the small darty thing (in this case an H. formosa), it eventually gives up chasing small darty things altogether. The presence of the H. formosa and any surviving juvenile guppies protects the very smallest guppies who are newly born. That's why the guppies and the heterandria formosa make a good community tank setup; both benefit from the presence of the other. Also, neither eats the other. And they both eat the same foods: flakes, grindal worms, microworms, and Ken's Golden Pearls.
The other setup I have is a 75 gallon saltwater planted macroalgae tank. It's a species tank. There is a pair of synchiropus splendidus (mandarin dragonettes) in it. They spend most of their day foraging in the wild, so I set up the tank for them to be able to do that. The presence of other fish might startle them and prevent them from coming out and foraging, so I leave these two fish as the only fish in the tank, even though they're just three inches long and it's a four foot long 75 gallon tank. That's what I did for my Elassoma gilberti, too; kept them in a species only tank. They are more likely to come out of hiding when not scared by larger fish.
The tank is full of the tiny copepods the mandarins call prey.
In the wild they hang out with others of their own kind, breed weekly, and have a lifespan of 10-15 years. This is a native fish forum, not a mandarin dragonette fish forum, so I won't say more, but the pair is becoming fatter. I expect them to spawn soon.
I will say that it is important to consider what the animal does for most of the hours of its waking life. For example, mice spend most of their waking hours nesting. They love to nest. Give them an egg carton and some cardboard and paper products and they will turn into little architects, building their own little home. Deprive them of nesting materials, though, and they start to go a little bit insane. They fight more, and sometimes they chew off their own or others' hair. This is called barbering, and it's a stress behavior. It's not good. They start to get OCD, moving in the same exact figure 8 pattern around and around their cage. Again, not good. Obsessive compulsive mice are not completely sane. I've seen the same behavior in fish, tracing a circle again and again with their noses on the glass. moving in the same motion over and over and over. It's not good. It means they're so bored that they're starting to go insane. Environmental enrichment is really, really important. Think about what the animal would spend most of its time doing in the wild, and give it the ability to do that in its cage. I give my chinchillas different things to chew on. Grape vines, willow branches, hay, seagrass, loofah, pumice, wood, branches. Put the tastiest thing inside a container of less tasty things, like cardboard. It'll take time for them to get the treat out from the middle. That's time they won't spend chewing their own hair off.
Fish are very much the same as any animal. They have behaviors they do in the wild. If deprived of the ability to enact those behaviors in the home aquarium, they perform other, different behaviors. These stress behaviors like figure 8 swimming are not healthy. It's best to figure out what the animal would spend the majority of its time in the wild doing (foraging? Chasing females?) and give it the opportunity to spend its time doing that.
I have never kept shiners but I would imagine that a powerhead would enrich their lives greatly. In the wild they must enjoy playing in the current of the riffles they live in. I doubt that the presence of darters would interfere with the cyprinellas being cyprinellas. But they might eat the eggs. Have you thought about breeding your shiners? There was a pretty good discussion just recently about that. Link: http://forum.nanfa.o...-chromosus-fry/
Edited by EricaWieser, 10 January 2013 - 09:26 PM.
#3
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:22 PM
Matt,
The short answer is "yes". You can do it. I have now and have kept Cyrinellas in with smaller shiners, and larger chubs etc and they do keep acting like themselves.
I recommend bluehead chubs as a larger fish. And maybe yellowfin shiners if you are in central SC where I think you are (my kids are at Lander)
The short answer is "yes". You can do it. I have now and have kept Cyrinellas in with smaller shiners, and larger chubs etc and they do keep acting like themselves.
I recommend bluehead chubs as a larger fish. And maybe yellowfin shiners if you are in central SC where I think you are (my kids are at Lander)
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#4
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:27 PM
lol, yeah, sorry, I should have just said that. I guess you can tell the nights I have homework or a test and should be doing something else by how long my posts on this forum are XD sorry about thatThe short answer is "yes". You can do it.
#5
mattknepley
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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:29 PM
Erica, considering the length of my question (2 paragraphs of backstory?! 
), the fact that anyone would read it at all and care to respond in kind is flattering. So don't apologize, unless you're just using me to avoid homework... As for the powerhead idea, I wondered about that. The interesting thing is, these aren't stream dwelling shiners. They are large reservoir dwelling shiners. I'm not sure how much "real" current they are exposed to, or where they are for the rest of the year outside of late July through August for that matter.
Michael, thanks for the suggestions. Those are both interesting choices. Those blueheads get pretty big from what Freshwater Fishes of the Carolinas, VA, MD, & DE says, but they'd make a nice contrast to the cyprinellas I think. And the yellowfins are sharp looking, in or out of breeding coloration. You are correct as to my location. I live in the next town east of Greenwood. The gamut of domestic adventures takes me right past Lander on a regular basis!
), the fact that anyone would read it at all and care to respond in kind is flattering. So don't apologize, unless you're just using me to avoid homework... As for the powerhead idea, I wondered about that. The interesting thing is, these aren't stream dwelling shiners. They are large reservoir dwelling shiners. I'm not sure how much "real" current they are exposed to, or where they are for the rest of the year outside of late July through August for that matter.Michael, thanks for the suggestions. Those are both interesting choices. Those blueheads get pretty big from what Freshwater Fishes of the Carolinas, VA, MD, & DE says, but they'd make a nice contrast to the cyprinellas I think. And the yellowfins are sharp looking, in or out of breeding coloration. You are correct as to my location. I live in the next town east of Greenwood. The gamut of domestic adventures takes me right past Lander on a regular basis!
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#6
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:11 PM
If you catch a bluehead at 3 or 4 inches they grow at a pretty good rate up to about 6-8 inches... but then they slow down... they are basically mature at this size and look fantastic and are very peaceful community fish I have kept a few in a 75 with a mess of shiners and it works out fine for size of the fish. They are long, but not nearly as massive as say a 8 in sunfish, and not nearly as messy.
Let me know when you are ready to go out and get some... would love to help out.
Let me know when you are ready to go out and get some... would love to help out.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#7
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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:18 PM
They USED to be stream shiners, before dams came along. There are no natural lakes in the Carolina piedmont or mountain regions, so your shiners still have the instincts to revert to their ancestral stream life. Satinfins and greenfins just happen to be some of the very few stream-dwelling minnows of the Carolinas that can survive after a stream is impounded and becomes a lake. They do enjoy current in an aquarium and it will bring out some natural behaviors you wont see in still water, but they dont need it. I second MW's suggestion for bluehead chub. Satinfins and greenfins can sometimes get pretty nippy, and hold their own just fine against bigger fish. I had a greenfin who lived for several years with a 6" longear sunfish, and they were pretty well matched when fights broke out..
The interesting thing is, these aren't stream dwelling shiners. They are large reservoir dwelling shiners. I'm not sure how much "real" current they are exposed to, or where they are for the rest of the year outside of late July through August for that matter.
#8
mattknepley
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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:47 PM
You might have just sold me on those blueheads, Michael. Will definitely try to take you up on that offer to chase some before it gets too warm. (The fact it's 60 out right now notwithstanding...)
Gerald, you're absolutely right about the lakes of the Carolinas; there's precious few real ones. I was really surprised to find the large schools of baitfish that migrated into the cove each summer were stream shiners; hadn't ever seen them in the lake before. I take it from your reply that you doubt whitefins would establish themselves in a reservoir. Any guesses where these guys go during the rest of the year?
Gerald, you're absolutely right about the lakes of the Carolinas; there's precious few real ones. I was really surprised to find the large schools of baitfish that migrated into the cove each summer were stream shiners; hadn't ever seen them in the lake before. I take it from your reply that you doubt whitefins would establish themselves in a reservoir. Any guesses where these guys go during the rest of the year?
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#9
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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:26 AM
While I don't have any answers (at least right now) to your original questions, I'd like to throw out some input on the fish. I don't think you found any Satinfins around Lake Greenwood. Satinfins, according to the Freshwater Fishes of SC book, are only found in the PeeDee drainage around the coastal plains. Both Greenfin and Whitefin, once again according to Fritz Rohde's book, are known to occur around the shoreline of reservoirs and both are found in your area. Both are also fish that enjoy current.
#10
mattknepley
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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:31 PM
Right you are, Tigerfan. I sure managed to miss that distribution map in my book. I'm assuming Fritz Rohde is one and the same as Fred C. Rohde. My guys also look pretty similar to the greenfins Dustin has on aquabid. If mine ever slowed down enough to get their pictures taken, maybe I could post one. But 34 attempts into it, I quit. ](http://forum.nanfa.org/public/style_emoticons/default/eusa_wall.gif)
You can only look at so many blurs...
You can only look at so many blurs...
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#11
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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:35 PM
Michael Wolfe wrote something that might help: how to make a photo tank.If mine ever slowed down enough to get their pictures taken, maybe I could post one. But 34 attempts into it, I quit.
Link: http://forum.nanfa.o...231-photo-tank/
Edited by EricaWieser, 12 January 2013 - 08:36 PM.
#12
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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:50 PM
plenty of satinfins can be found in small fast flowing streams in and around carthage. they should be fine with a lot of flow. the streams are hard to find, you wont see them on google earth, its hard to see them even right up next to them. i was in the area for a few years and never saw them dry up, so they probably still live like stream fish. sometimes its easier to look for them by just walking into the woods somwhere...
there are more streams in that area than i care to count...
there are more streams in that area than i care to count...
Edited by Auban, 12 January 2013 - 09:52 PM.
#13
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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:49 PM
Right you are, Tigerfan. I sure managed to miss that distribution map in my book. I'm assuming Fritz Rohde is one and the same as Fred C. Rohde. My guys also look pretty similar to the greenfins Dustin has on aquabid. If mine ever slowed down enough to get their pictures taken, maybe I could post one. But 34 attempts into it, I quit.
I would figure greenfins too based on your description of them having "electric-pastel blue fin edging" as I don't recall whitefins having that characteristics. But, I'm not an ID expert, as Dustin can attest to
especially without actually seeing them. Also, I meant to say in my previous post, I'm also a fan of bluehead chubs. They can sort of look drab, at least females and non-breeding young males, but from my experience they make up for that with activity and they do work well with these shiners. If you go the yellowfin route, you'll have to decide on either the true yellowfin variety or the mystery red-finned yellowfin variety that is all over the Savannah system. Yellowfins are some of my favorite shiners around here. You could also check out the greenhead shiner, similar to the yellowfin.
#14
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:43 PM
This is a fairly pale greenfin from a NC trip a couple of years ago... he is not totally colored up (he was not a fan of the phototank and the pic was taken after he made it back home), but you can see the pastel, iridescent, lime, green on the dorsal fin. Gets much more intense as they go into breeding colors and the lower fins go opaque milky.
and I am going to defend my favorite fish and say that even the immatures are pretty nice looking... larger than the other shiners I keep, brassy colors scales... orange tinge to the tail and dorsal... look at this young individual... a pretty good looking fish for my tastes... I think there has been some discussion that the Georgia ones have more orange in the fins than some of the other populations... I am not really a splitter, but some folks call these Nocomis leptocephalus interocularis the Georgia Chub. The below individual came from the South River a tributary of the Ocmulgee in Atlanta.
and I am going to defend my favorite fish and say that even the immatures are pretty nice looking... larger than the other shiners I keep, brassy colors scales... orange tinge to the tail and dorsal... look at this young individual... a pretty good looking fish for my tastes... I think there has been some discussion that the Georgia ones have more orange in the fins than some of the other populations... I am not really a splitter, but some folks call these Nocomis leptocephalus interocularis the Georgia Chub. The below individual came from the South River a tributary of the Ocmulgee in Atlanta.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#15
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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:22 PM
Michael,
That definitely is a lot better looking bluehead than most I've seen.
That definitely is a lot better looking bluehead than most I've seen.
#16
mattknepley
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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:37 AM
Thanks for the pictures, Micheal. That just may be my minnow. I finally got a couple semi-decent pictures of them last night. I'll try posting them again, but my last attempt wasn't successful. (Can you guess I'm not exactly tech-savvy?)
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#17
mattknepley
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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:55 AM
Success!
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Hopefully there's enough in here to help id these buggers. Most of them have tubercles on their heads. The fins didn't show up as blue as they do in real life, or at least as they do under summer sun and florescent lights. On the other hand, the reddish/orange in their caudals shows up more... They have also lost most of the lance-shaped stripe that ran to their operculum. They also had a gunmetal blue hue that displayed much like the colors of Aussie rainbowfish do, kind of showing through from the inside, if that makes sense.
022.JPG 125.59KB
10 downloads
024.JPG 124.89KB
4 downloads
026.JPG 137.48KB
1 downloads
036.JPG 76.04KB
1 downloads
061.JPG 103.08KB
5 downloads
065.JPG 109.22KB
2 downloadsHopefully there's enough in here to help id these buggers. Most of them have tubercles on their heads. The fins didn't show up as blue as they do in real life, or at least as they do under summer sun and florescent lights. On the other hand, the reddish/orange in their caudals shows up more... They have also lost most of the lance-shaped stripe that ran to their operculum. They also had a gunmetal blue hue that displayed much like the colors of Aussie rainbowfish do, kind of showing through from the inside, if that makes sense.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
#18
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:43 PM
Those are NOT whitefins, so based on range (Santee basin) they "must be" greenfins. Satinfin and greenfin are pretty near identical, and both are very common in adjacent watersheds (Satinfin in PeeDee basin; Greenfin in adjacent Santee basin), so if they ever get introduced into each other's ranges (it's hard to believe they haven't) I wonder if anyone will notice. To me, Cyprinella behavior is more complex and interesting than most other shiners, probably because they're more territorial and competitive than most.
Edited by gerald, 15 January 2013 - 04:46 PM.
#19
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:08 PM
I can totally believe they are green fins... (first rule of fish ID... know where your feet are). I know the strip you are talking about... almost a navy blue... common in several Cyprinella... and I also know the blue above you are talking about... but I think that is mostly reflected sunlight (at least in my experience).
They look good and healthy... good fo you! Almost looks like sparring in that fourth picture down (lowever fins down full, dorsal up full) with some potential females in the background.
They look good and healthy... good fo you! Almost looks like sparring in that fourth picture down (lowever fins down full, dorsal up full) with some potential females in the background.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#20
mattknepley
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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:43 PM
Thanks for all the input, folks! That's why I love NANFA. I'm glad to have a correct id for these fish now.
Auban, is that Carthage in SC? I didn't see it on my DeLorme, but I was pretty tired last night when I looked.
Gerald, I agree with you on finding Cyprinellas' behaviors interesting. That's why I was a little hesitant about mixing other species in with them.
Michael, they spar quite a bit, just like you said- dorsal full up, ventral and anal fin fin full down. They shimmy up next to each other and go around in circles kind of vibrating at each other until one gives way. Sometimes it's over pretty quick, but other times it's a little protracted. There does seem to be a dominant fish, but the hierarchy seems rather fluid at times.
If I can keep pestering you all, these little guys have me curious. Does anybody have any insight on "stream gone reservoir" shiners? It seems to me they are following food into the cove in late summer, maybe eating those tiny water striders that flourish around the same time. But where are they the rest of the year? In the cove they'll hit the feed on the surface in 15' of water, do you think they do that on the open expanses of the reservoir? That seems like it would feel very uncomfortable for a fish that must still have some "stream" in its dna. (At it's widest the lake may be a mile across. Don't really know.) Do they even head out there? Our cove is blocked somewhat from the "big water" by a fairly substantial sand bar and is very near an island with pretty extensive shallow flats around it. Think they just bum around there? Do these guys tend to be migratory in their stream habitats, or is this apparently something they've developed in a reservoir setting? Are they migrating? Could they be hiding in plain sight and I just haven't noticed?
Again, sorry for the shotgun style questioning. Any and all observations/inputs are welcome. I find these little guys fascinating, and appreciate your willingness to help me know them better!
Auban, is that Carthage in SC? I didn't see it on my DeLorme, but I was pretty tired last night when I looked.
Gerald, I agree with you on finding Cyprinellas' behaviors interesting. That's why I was a little hesitant about mixing other species in with them.
Michael, they spar quite a bit, just like you said- dorsal full up, ventral and anal fin fin full down. They shimmy up next to each other and go around in circles kind of vibrating at each other until one gives way. Sometimes it's over pretty quick, but other times it's a little protracted. There does seem to be a dominant fish, but the hierarchy seems rather fluid at times.
If I can keep pestering you all, these little guys have me curious. Does anybody have any insight on "stream gone reservoir" shiners? It seems to me they are following food into the cove in late summer, maybe eating those tiny water striders that flourish around the same time. But where are they the rest of the year? In the cove they'll hit the feed on the surface in 15' of water, do you think they do that on the open expanses of the reservoir? That seems like it would feel very uncomfortable for a fish that must still have some "stream" in its dna. (At it's widest the lake may be a mile across. Don't really know.) Do they even head out there? Our cove is blocked somewhat from the "big water" by a fairly substantial sand bar and is very near an island with pretty extensive shallow flats around it. Think they just bum around there? Do these guys tend to be migratory in their stream habitats, or is this apparently something they've developed in a reservoir setting? Are they migrating? Could they be hiding in plain sight and I just haven't noticed?
Again, sorry for the shotgun style questioning. Any and all observations/inputs are welcome. I find these little guys fascinating, and appreciate your willingness to help me know them better!
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."
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