got a channel cat last week and noticed white dots on the fins, tail and small bumps under the skin on his body. what in your opinion is this and how should i treat it before it spreads to my other fish? t.y.
what does my channel cat have?
Started by
Guest_jacksmelt_*
, Jan 22 2013 05:11 PM
14 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:20 PM
Sounds like ichthyophthirius (ich). Put him in a separate tank if you can (if your other fish have no symptoms) and treat with heat (80-84F) and salt (2 teasp/gal). There are also commercial ich remedies with malachite green, formalin, and other meds, but heat and salt are usually sufficient if you catch it early. Ich can only be killed in the free-swimming (invisible) stage. The cysts you see on the fish will not be affected by any treatment. They must mature and burst open to release the free-swimming stages that can be killed. Heat makes them mature faster.
#3
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:44 PM
2 teaspoons per gallon is roughly the upper limit of tolerance, so be careful not to go above that.
80-84 F may still be too cool. My reading suggests 86 as the lethal temperature, with elevated temperatures below that threshold actually promoting infection by accelerating the parasite's life cycle. Salt will help, but heat alone can be effective and there's really no reason not to go that high. Channel cats can certainly take that temperature.
I agree with the diagnosis, and you may need to move fairly rapidly to save the fish. Be gentle with heating to minimize stress - maybe 4 degrees per day in smaller increments if you have time to do that.
80-84 F may still be too cool. My reading suggests 86 as the lethal temperature, with elevated temperatures below that threshold actually promoting infection by accelerating the parasite's life cycle. Salt will help, but heat alone can be effective and there's really no reason not to go that high. Channel cats can certainly take that temperature.
I agree with the diagnosis, and you may need to move fairly rapidly to save the fish. Be gentle with heating to minimize stress - maybe 4 degrees per day in smaller increments if you have time to do that.
#4
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:38 PM
Channel cat, crap run the heat up as fast as you want. Gerald seems a little high on his salt, but he knows his fish. Many of these heat remedies, and salt remedies come from tropical fish sites. I would not hesitate to take your tank to two tablespoons of non iodized (no anti caking agent) salt per 5 gallons. Higher if there is no sign of stress. Add the salt somewhat slow, but as long as there is good aeration, I would not worry about the heat with a channel cat.
#5
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:56 PM
To approach the disease from another perspective, some people say that ich is present in most tanks. Fish can cohabitate with it without experiencing any symptoms. It's only when the fish's immune system is compromised that the little white bumps appear.
To make an analogy with human disease, pneumocystis pneumonia is a disease that causes cough, shortness of breath, and other symptoms. It's a very common disease, but unless your immune system is compromised, it's very unlikely that you'll ever know you have it. Only people with something compromising their immune system (HIV/AIDS, taking an immunosuppressant medication, etc) express symptoms.
Ich is sort of like pneumocystis pneumonia. I find that as long as ammonia is 0 ppm, nitrite is 0 ppm, and nitrate is less than 30 ppm (this part varies by species. My tank's < 20 ppm and > 0 ppm in general), the pH and DH are stable, and temperature is in the right range, with all of those things, the fish's immune system is usually able to successfully combat the ich. The channel cat probably has the ich because of the stress of being caught last week. If your other fish are healthy and have a good immune system, they probably won't catch it. Ich was probably already in your tank anyway.
To make an analogy with human disease, pneumocystis pneumonia is a disease that causes cough, shortness of breath, and other symptoms. It's a very common disease, but unless your immune system is compromised, it's very unlikely that you'll ever know you have it. Only people with something compromising their immune system (HIV/AIDS, taking an immunosuppressant medication, etc) express symptoms.
Ich is sort of like pneumocystis pneumonia. I find that as long as ammonia is 0 ppm, nitrite is 0 ppm, and nitrate is less than 30 ppm (this part varies by species. My tank's < 20 ppm and > 0 ppm in general), the pH and DH are stable, and temperature is in the right range, with all of those things, the fish's immune system is usually able to successfully combat the ich. The channel cat probably has the ich because of the stress of being caught last week. If your other fish are healthy and have a good immune system, they probably won't catch it. Ich was probably already in your tank anyway.
#6
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:25 PM
I'm surprised nobody said this yet, but frequent large water changes will help also. Ich goes through a burrowing and a free-swimming stage where the parasites live for a period on the bottom of the tank and then swim up to find a host. Water changes can reduce the rate of new infections by removing the free swimming stage, which will help the fish's immune system keep up.
#7
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:34 PM
Okay Erica, we already know how important water parameters are to you. Sometimes it it something else, and needs to be treated. I fully agree that perfect conditions make healthy fish, but not always. Diseases occur in native fish keepers tanks because they introduce fish. Same as tropical tanks. They happen, and water parameters are not always the cause. The record is broken. Slow down.
#8
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:05 AM
I should also note that it's almost certainly too late to save the other fish by simple quarantine. Even if Erica is right that the tank was already infected and they have been passive carriers, the large load of parasites that will have been released by the infected fish will likely cause symptoms in the others. The whole tank needs to be treated.
Keep us updated.
Keep us updated.
#9
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:48 AM
lol. Well ich isn't like other diseases. It's not like because it's there the fish get symptoms. It's present more often than you'd think and only causes problems under certain conditions, like foul water and stressed fish recovering from being caught.Okay Erica, we already know how important water parameters are to you. Sometimes it it something else, and needs to be treated. I fully agree that perfect conditions make healthy fish, but not always. Diseases occur in native fish keepers tanks because they introduce fish. Same as tropical tanks. They happen, and water parameters are not always the cause. The record is broken. Slow down.
One of the questions in the original post was "Are my other fish at risk?" which I don't think anyone had addressed yet. Because ich isn't the type of disease that causes symptoms in every infection, there are steps one can take to ensure the fish already in the tank don't express illness like this incoming, diminished immune system channel cat.
Edited by EricaWieser, 23 January 2013 - 07:58 AM.
#10
Guest_EricaWieser_*
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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:52 AM
I agree, water changes are a good idea. Pathogen load certainly impacts infection rate. Dechlorinate the incoming water and match the tank's temperature.I'm surprised nobody said this yet, but frequent large water changes will help also. Ich goes through a burrowing and a free-swimming stage where the parasites live for a period on the bottom of the tank and then swim up to find a host. Water changes can reduce the rate of new infections by removing the free swimming stage, which will help the fish's immune system keep up.
Edited by EricaWieser, 23 January 2013 - 07:54 AM.
#11
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:58 PM
I agree the channel cat probably got sick because of stress during collecting, transport, etc. We'll never know whether the ich was already on him or if he got infected after being put in the tank; either is possible. But given that his immune system failed to fight off the disease, he is now a source of huge numbers of free-swimming ich that may sicken the other healthy fish even if water quality is perfect. That's why I suggested moving him to a separate tank for treatment if the other fish are not yet showing symptoms. The others might be able to resist infection if you remove the parasite source and thus lessen their exposure.
SALT: 2 tesp/gal is approx 3 ppt (g/L). Channel cats can handle that salinity just fine for at least a few weeks.
SALT: 2 tesp/gal is approx 3 ppt (g/L). Channel cats can handle that salinity just fine for at least a few weeks.
One of the questions in the original post was "Are my other fish at risk?" which I don't think anyone had addressed yet.
#12
Guest_jacksmelt_*
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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:27 PM
hes in there w/ a few sunfish and a rock bass. they're in a heavily planted tank. will the salt kill them?
#13
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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:28 PM
the other fish and the plants i mean.hes in there w/ a few sunfish and a rock bass. they're in a heavily planted tank. will the salt kill them?
#14
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:42 PM
The fish will be fine. I am not sure about the plants, some are sensitive to salt.
#15
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:47 PM
If you have the ability to remove the fish to a quarantine tank that would be best. The plants and whatever invertebrates remain in the tank will not support the parasite and it will disappear on its own. Heat as discussed will speed that up, but isn't exactly necessary.
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