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Hippocampus zosterae


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#1 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:58 AM

I'm not sure if this counts as a native species or not. Here is its distribution range: http://www.aquamaps....c_Fis-30116.jpg
They are found off the coast of North Carolina, where I live. But these particular seahorses are coming from a vendor in Florida who I ordered 25 Hippocampus zosterae from on ebay. I intend to try my hand at breeding them, and would like to document the results here (if that is okay?)

Background and personal interest:
A few years ago I moved from landlocked Ohio to Atlantic-adjacent North Carolina. Now I have not only freshwater but also marine species nearby. So I set up and am maintaining a few saltwater tanks. As part of the requirement for breeding the rare and beautiful synchiropus splendidus (the mandarin dragonette or mandarinfish), I had to grow copepods, which is working surprisingly well. Well, it turns out copepods aren't just eaten by mandarinfish but are also the main food of an animal everyone knows and loves: seahorses.

Here are two videos of what finally led me to make the jump to seahorses:
Stable copepod population:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9bOYmBI-mo

Happy, fattening-up mandarin dragonettes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzX1Py3VODs

That's the top tank. Two basically identical 75 gallons sit one on top of another in a custom made heavy duty wooden stand. The top tank's theoretically for adult fish and the bottom one's for fry. I think S. splendidus and H. zosterae would be fairly compatible with one another, and I know the mandarinfish will accept microworms should the copepod population ever be depleted (past experience). There seems to be fairly little to no risk to buying some seahorses and adding them to the mix.

Potential pitfalls and possible solutions:
1. What if the mandarinfish spawn? Will the seahorses pose a threat to the baby mandarinfish? If the mandarinfish ever do get fat enough to spawn, I'll scoop their eggs off the surface and put them in the bottom tank. The eggs float for the first few hours after being laid and are easy to remove. Fry will be safe in the separate 75 gallon tank, which is set up and ready for them. There will be no chance for the seahorses to eat the baby mandarinfish.
2. What if the mandarinfish eat the baby seahorses? I really doubt this will happen. Mandarinfish mouths are very strangely shaped. Even though the fish can reach four inches long, they will not accept food larger than what you'd feed to your smallest fry. My mandarinfish eat microworms with gusto but find grindal worms to be too large. I don't think the baby seahorses are in danger of being eaten by the mandarinfish.
3. What if that's too many fish in the tank and the copepods disappear? This is the worst case scenario: complete copepod extinction. But at the same time it's not the end of the world. If the seahorses eat all the copepods in the top tank, I'll add microworms to keep the mandarinfish well fed. Mandarinfish readily eat microworms and I think they might even prefer them. They perk up and start hunting whenever I add microworms to the water. If the seahorses refuse to eat microworms, I can sell or give them to a new home that does have copepods so that they don't starve to death. Everybody loves seahorses and it will not be hard to find them a new home. Also, I will financially not be taking a big loss for this investment. It was <$100 for the 25 seahorses, a ridiculously good deal that is the main motivation making me finally decide to take the plunge and buy them. They are $40 each without the cost of shipping on liveaquaria.com , so although I had wanted to add them from the time the tank was initially set up, buying the 5-6 animals minimum for a breeding group would have been too expensive. Anyway, to get back to my point, there are copepods in the bottom tank so I can sell off the seahorses, reseed the top tank with copepods from the bottom, and call it a no-financial-loss experiment.


So that's a summary of the plan. I have ordered some Hippocampus zosterae. I intend to breed them in my 75 gallon planted saltwater tank and hopefully get adorable little baby seahorses, without obliterating the copepod population in the tank and without the mandarinfish and seahorses interacting in a negative way. *nods* I think it'll work. Let me know if I should post this here or not.

#2 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:07 AM

Sounds like a good plan to me! I think this is absolutely relevant to the forum, and as someone who has worked in the aquarium/pet industry for years and years, any progress toward sustainable production of marine livestock is of great conservation interest. Good luck!

#3 Guest_Usil_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

I wonder if you set up an area inside the tank (screened corner or end of the tank) where the copepods can freely move and the fish can not so that you block off completely (from time to time) as needed to allow time to reproduce and rebuild their numbers might be feasible to help maintain the population?

Usil

#4 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:04 PM

I wonder if you set up an area inside the tank (screened corner or end of the tank) where the copepods can freely move and the fish can not so that you block off completely (from time to time) as needed to allow time to reproduce and rebuild their numbers might be feasible to help maintain the population?

Usil

The bottom tank does have tank dividers built into the back wall, as I intend to separate larger fry from their smaller, edible siblings. Image: http://img.photobuck...imiru/003-6.jpg So I'm familiar with what you're talking about, sequestration of small things in a different place from large things.

But the top tank is the 'display' tank, so the solution is a little bit different: The background. It sticks out a few millimeters from the back wall, but not enough for fish to fit through. It's just enough for copepods to go and hide. This is a picture of the bottom tank's background from the side before it was installed completely into the stand: http://img.photobuck...zpsb2f05361.jpg You can see it's snug up against the back wall. The top tank's background is very similar but has a tiny gap. Here's a photo looking down from above before it was installed: http://img.photobuck...zpsdf80e993.jpg This photo is from before it was siliconed in place; the final gap is not enough for a fish to fit into. I've got to admit that the gap wasn't entirely intentional (there were some problems with installation), but now that it's there I can definitely see the advantage to it.

So far that gap, the hiding spaces in the caulerpa prolifera, and the crevasses in between the tufa gravel on the back wall are all working pretty well. The copepods are many in number.

Edited by EricaWieser, 26 January 2013 - 02:10 PM.


#5 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:32 PM

North American coastal fish are fair game, and certainly relevant.

#6 Guest_Owain4_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:18 PM

Hey i love the tank, very interesting. Do you have any tank shots that show the full tank from a higher angle? I'd love to see more of this one

#7 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:40 PM

Hey i love the tank, very interesting. Do you have any tank shots that show the full tank from a higher angle? I'd love to see more of this one

Both tanks: http://img.photobuck...zps7271191b.jpg
Top tank: http://img.photobuck...zps91260d50.jpg
I documented everything from the beginning to now on here: http://forum.aquatic...php?f=29&t=1429

Edited by EricaWieser, 26 January 2013 - 03:43 PM.


#8 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:39 PM

As one who has bred and raised H. Zosterae in the past I may be alble to help with a couple of your questions.
"Will the seahorses pose a threat to the baby mandarinfish?" If they get close enough and will fit in their mouths yes they will.
"What if the mandarinfish eat the baby seahorses?" Doubt that will happen. Since Zosterae have so few babies at a time compared to their larger cousins the babies are big enough they probably will be safe.
My biggest concern with your plan is that you plan on keeping them in a 75 gal. Remember seahorses don't swim after their food much if at all and prefer the food come to them while they stay "hitched" to a plant. So either that tank is going to have to be heavily loaded with live food or you may have problems. Heck a 20 gal might be to big unless it's loaded with food. I used to feed mine brine shrimp that was loaded with phytoplankton or Selcon.

#9 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:53 PM

As one who has bred and raised H. Zosterae in the past I may be alble to help with a couple of your questions.
"Will the seahorses pose a threat to the baby mandarinfish?" If they get close enough and will fit in their mouths yes they will.

The baby mandarinfish will be in the bottom tank.

My biggest concern with your plan is that you plan on keeping them in a 75 gal. Remember seahorses don't swim after their food much if at all and prefer the food come to them while they stay "hitched" to a plant. So either that tank is going to have to be heavily loaded with live food or you may have problems. Heck a 20 gal might be to big unless it's loaded with food. I used to feed mine brine shrimp that was loaded with phytoplankton or Selcon.

You're not the first person to say that. It makes me a little concerned. I hope they eat microworms (if so I can load the tank with as much food as necessary), but if not I may consider buying brine shrimp cysts.

#10 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:30 PM

I would be purchasing the Brine Shrimp as the Zosterae will not go down to the bottom for the most part to go after microworms. Plus the Mandarins are much more aggresive eaters.

#11 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:21 AM

You may also find saltwater copepods, saltwater gammarus, saltwater Mysis shrimps etc.... very beneficial and available here: http://www.aquacultu...-Invertebrates/ or here: http://lfscultures.com/cultures.html.

#12 Guest_don212_*

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:48 AM

this is a very interesting thread, if i ever do a saltwater, ithink i will do seahorses, also i have an idea, here in central fl we have a scallop season in the summer, incidentally while harvesting, we occasionally come across seahorses , other than the grass, there is not much structure, everyone loves seahorses, i wonder if it would be possible to create a seahorse habitat which might increase the population, and provide a nice viewing opportuity, something like that would be a boon to our community, i think we could put out mooring buoys and informational placards also, any comments, suggestions? By the way, yall come on down this summer for some great scalloping, and some fish collecting Citrus cty Fl, is your kind of place if you like fish.

#13 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:00 AM

You may also find saltwater copepods, saltwater gammarus, saltwater Mysis shrimps etc.... very beneficial and available here: http://www.aquacultu...-Invertebrates/ or here: http://lfscultures.com/cultures.html.


There are a lot of copepods. This is a video of my top tank, where the seahorses will go:
http://youtu.be/k9bOYmBI-mo

Here's a video of the bottom tank that I captured yesterday. It's sort of fun to watch the copepods on their own, regardless of their value as food for the fish. They're spastic and hyper and neat to watch.
http://youtu.be/6dSdIV4cwyw

Edited by EricaWieser, 27 January 2013 - 11:04 AM.


#14 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:09 PM

One other concern Erica..... You do realize these guys are only about an inch long? I don't know how wide those leaves on the calerpa are but they look way too wide for those little guys to wrap their tail's around and "hitch" to. Eelgrass would be many times better.

#15 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:32 PM

One other concern Erica..... You do realize these guys are only about an inch long? I don't know how wide those leaves on the calerpa are but they look way too wide for those little guys to wrap their tail's around and "hitch" to. Eelgrass would be many times better.

I tried to buy eelgrass back when I was setting up the tank, but couldn't find anyone selling it. A lot of the species of eelgrass are listed as endangered, so I gave up and got caulerpa prolifera. We'll just have to see what the H. zosterae make of it.

#16 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:36 PM

Don, You have a great idea! Here is a group that may be able to help you with that. They work with people all over the world finding ways to stem population decline an have actually had some very positive results. I don't know if you can contact Amanda Vincent directly but this should get you going in the right direction.

Project Seahorse
Fisheries Centre
University of British Columbia
2204 Main Mall
Vancouver BC, V6T 1Z4
Canada
http://www.projectseahorse.com
info@projectseahorse.org
Telephone: 604-827-5139
Fax: 604-827-5199

Here is a link to UBC's website: http://www.fisheries.../amanda-vincent

#17 Guest_Ken_*

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:25 PM

Wish you the best with them. The are great little guy/gals. Fern calerpa may be alternative though to consider in the future. Just a suggestion.

#18 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:36 PM

Wish you the best with them. The are great little guy/gals. Fern calerpa may be alternative though to consider in the future. Just a suggestion.

Thank you. I do have some in my tank, Caulerpa taxifolia. There are also a few species of thin stemmed red gracilaria. And some sargassum.

#19 Guest_dac343_*

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:41 PM

Hope you don't mind me putting my two cents in. I always used decapsulated brine eggs as there are fears that left over egg/cyst fragments can be deadly if ingested. Other concerns with using live plants is the introduction of hydroids, they can be deadly. Nothing is as heartbreaking as realizing you had an explosion of them, and seeing the herd convulsing due to being stung. Small tanks are a must just to make food access easy. They do not like chasing food and prefer to have it come to them, on top of that they tend to eat large amounts during the day.

Hope you don't mind some pics
Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by dac343, 27 January 2013 - 08:53 PM.


#20 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:01 PM

Dac343, have you ever tried feeding your seahorses microworms?
Also, I'm glad to see they can wrap their tails around caulerpa prolifera :)




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