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help with this shiner

Started by Guest_teleost_* , Aug 22 2006 07:37 PM

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11 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 07:37 PM

I caught and released this fish in Kankakee county near the kankakee river in Illinois.

I know a few look alikes exist in the area and hoped maybe someone could help.

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#2 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 07:56 PM

I know you've already been told this before, but it sure looks like an ironcolor to me.

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#3 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 09:13 PM

Looks like an irnocolor, what else ya think it might be. I am not familiar all the cyprinids in your area.

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#4 Guest_fritz_*

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 07:06 AM

This strongly looks like a ironcolor shiner and according to Phil SMith's Fishes of Illinois, it is common in the Kankakee sand area of Kankakee and Iroquios counties. It should have alot of black pigment inside the mouth.

Fritz

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#5 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 07:30 AM

Thanks for your thoughts. I tend to think you're right but I catch another fish that I thought was Ironcolor. First impressions are lasting. Perhaps the other fish is the real question.

The look a likes in these waters: Weed shiner N. texanus
Blacknose shiner N. heterolepis
and N. chalybaeus

Unfortunately I don't yet have a comparison photo of the other fish I commonly find in the area. To add to the difficulty two of the above fish are threatened and one is endangered in this state. For this reason I just can't bring myself to open thier mouths to inspect. I'm worried about harming them during handling.

I'll make an effort to get a quick photo of the other similar fish I find and post it.

I know you've already been told this before, but it sure looks like an ironcolor to me.

You've never told me this but it's good to hear it from others. It's hard for me to get any experience with these fish this far north (weed & ironcolor).

Thanks for all of your input.

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#6 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 07:37 AM

I'm also going with Ironcolor shiner.
It fits this species better than the others that appear similar for the collection area.
I'm also using Smith's Fishes of Illinois as reference on this one.

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#7 Guest_dredcon_*

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 07:52 AM

the weed shiner lack the black pigment in its mouth that both the ironcolor and black nose have.
The ironcolor(8-9) and blakc nose(10-11) can be seperated based on anal ray counts.

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#8 Guest_fritz_*

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 08:12 AM

blacknose shiners will have small, subterminal and horizontal mouth while the ironoclor has a small oblique one. the blacknose should not have black on the lower lip which the ironcolor does. often the last anal rays of the weed shiner are outlined with black.

Fritz

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#9 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 08:18 AM

So...I suppose the question is at this point, Did you look in it's mouth??

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#10 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 08:20 AM

I'm staisfied. This fish is as identified as can be without killing one and that's all I can ask for.

This may sound weird, but this really means alot to me. I honestly can't thank all of you enough for giving me a hand on this one.

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#11 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 08:23 AM

So...I suppose the question is at this point, Did you look in it's mouth??

No

I can promise this will be done even if I have to get there this weekend. I doubt I can get a photo of this but I'm sure I can manage a quick peek without harm.