Crayfish

Here is a C. sphenoides from last April. This was field identifed as C. sphenoides and verified by Carl Williams with TWRA.

This is definatly my crayfish. Is this a dwarf?? Where in the field was this? Where did you catch it??

I'm pretty sure that is a Cambarus sphenoides. They are a pretty common crayfish in small to medium size streams in Tennessee. I collected quite a few of them in first through fourth order streams in the Obed River above Dale Hollow last spring. I saw alot in the Hiwassee River all last summer too (along with some awesome bright pink and blue ones). For a positive ID with keys for the area you really need a mature male and a better measurement would be the chelae length, which is from the snout to the right at the start of the tail, instead of the total length.

Same as mine. I caught it in a medium stream slow moving water in detris. So are they a dwarf or not?

It along with many other were caught in a small sandy flowing ditch that is a tributary to the Obey River just north of Monterey, Tennessee. I am not sure if it is, or what would make it, a dwarf species. To my knowledge it is not a dwarf species. I don't have the data sheets handy so I can't check their lengths but you can tell by the relative size of the claws in the picture I gave that yours will continute to grow to a 2 - 3 inches length.

I'm pretty sure that is a Cambarus sphenoides. They are a pretty common crayfish in small to medium size streams in Tennessee. I collected quite a few of them in first through fourth order streams in the Obed River above Dale Hollow last spring. I saw alot in the Hiwassee River all last summer too (along with some awesome bright pink and blue ones). For a positive ID with keys for the area you really need a mature male and a better measurement would be the chelae length, which is from the snout to the right at the start of the tail, instead of the total length.

Now you have me interested in keeping crayfish. Bright pink and blue ones. Where do I go? The Hiwasse is a big river. And on the first through fourth order streams for those of us with an uneducated mind in the water world what does that mean? This site is all about learning right? And is the pic I posted a dwarf crayfish?
I was looking at the spelling of the Hiwassee/Hiawasse river on the net. Are there two different rivers? It talks of the Hiawasse in Georgia and the Hiwasse in Tennessee. I for one thought it was spelled with two A's. One one site that I googled its header page was spelled Hiwasse and on the content inside it spelled it Hiawasse. Is there just a general misspelling of the name out there?

There are alot of improper spellings. It is Hiwassee. I can't remeber exactly where I found them at, but it had to be between the confluence with the Ocoee to just upstream of Patty Road. There is a boat ramp at Patty Road, but everything surrounding it is private. I also think upstream of Patty Rd begins the trout water designation, but that should be in the fishing regulations. They were VERY uncommon to say the least. I saw only one blue and two pink forms over six days of electrofishing and 12 days of snorkeling during the past two summers. In general crayfish weren't that common in that stretch of the river because there isn't much for them to burrow under. The river is pedominantly gravel shoal. The more frequent crayfish there is brown to pine green and speckled. Not sure what it is I never kept a specimen to ID. If you ever go out there make sure you check the TVA water release schedule first for Appalachia Dam. If they turn their generators on at 11 am the water begins to rise at Patty Rd around 3 pm.

order is exactly that...a way to order streams in a drainage from their begining downstream. For example, the very smallest headwater streams are first order streams. When two 1st order come together you have a 2nd order. When two 2nd order come together you have a 3rd order, and so on and so on. For the most part it, stream order increases with width and volume. I just happen to give a lecture on this last week and have this handy picture.

I found this one on the web with this name attached to it. I put it side by side with the one I caught here. Cambarus Depressicambarus sphenoides

I was hopeing for a common name though. But maybe there is no common name for this one. Do these two look like they could be the same species? And does anyone know how large this species gets if you can ID it for me.

No one know or do you not want to tell me how big this thing gets????? I have found him on the net but it is like finding a needle in a haystak. And I have yet to find a size.

There are alot of improper spellings. It is Hiwassee. I can't remeber exactly where I found them at, but it had to be between the confluence with the Ocoee to just upstream of Patty Road. There is a boat ramp at Patty Road, but everything surrounding it is private. I also think upstream of Patty Rd begins the trout water designation, but that should be in the fishing regulations. They were VERY uncommon to say the least. I saw only one blue and two pink forms over six days of electrofishing and 12 days of snorkeling during the past two summers. In general crayfish weren't that common in that stretch of the river because there isn't much for them to burrow under. The river is pedominantly gravel shoal. The more frequent crayfish there is brown to pine green and speckled. Not sure what it is I never kept a specimen to ID. If you ever go out there make sure you check the TVA water release schedule first for Appalachia Dam. If they turn their generators on at 11 am the water begins to rise at Patty Rd around 3 pm.

order is exactly that...a way to order streams in a drainage from their begining downstream. For example, the very smallest headwater streams are first order streams. When two 1st order come together you have a 2nd order. When two 2nd order come together you have a 3rd order, and so on and so on. For the most part it, stream order increases with width and volume. I just happen to give a lecture on this last week and have this handy picture.

No problem. I would not know where trout stream starts or stops so since they are hard to come by anyway I will not attempt to dipnet near or at a trout stream. How bid does the one a I have posted here get. No if I can remember Hiwasee I will be all set. I must say that is easier than all the other ways I have been spelling it. Are you the person that says you will be moving soon?? I would really like to meet more members in my area here in Chattanooga. I live in Ooltewah. Even if it is a casual lunch or something that would be great. And I understand if I am not mistakeing that you teach at one of our Universities/Colleges here in Chattanooga??
I went with dredcon to his place of teaching " Nichols State University" in Thibodeaux Louisiana and he showed me so many neat creatures in his labs down there. I would love to see what you do.

Thanks very much for the info.
Daniel , AKA nativecajun

No problem. I would not know where trout stream starts or stops so since they are hard to come by anyway I will not attempt to dipnet near or at a trout stream. How bid does the one a I have posted here get. No if I can remember Hiwasee I will be all set. I must say that is easier than all the other ways I have been spelling it. Are you the person that says you will be moving soon?? I would really like to meet more members in my area here in Chattanooga. I live in Ooltewah. Even if it is a casual lunch or something that would be great. And I understand if I am not mistakeing that you teach at one of our Universities/Colleges here in Chattanooga??
I went with dredcon to his place of teaching " Nichols State University" in Thibodeaux Louisiana and he showed me so many neat creatures in his labs down there. I would love to see what you do.

Thanks very much for the info.
Daniel , AKA nativecajun

Oh and I had not read all of your post before replying. Thanks for sharing the info on the stream order. I love this site despite the once in a while heated debate. I have learned so much it excites me more than ----- well maybe not that much but it is the best thing that has come into my life in a while this whole NANFA thing.

I love this site despite the once in a while heated debate.

I find this amusing, considering that you are frequently at the center of the heated debate. Maybe this should clue you in that something in your posts is causing this and needs to be remedied?

I find this amusing, considering that you are frequently at the center of the heated debate. Maybe this should clue you in that something in your posts is causing this and needs to be remedied?

I have to hand it to you you are partly right. But do you ever look at what sets this off. ?????? Not everyone here is too tactful in their responses by a long shot. So I really think this is a site wide problem. Just because I start the thread does not mean I am the main culprit. Although I have to hand it to you when I feel cornered I will do battle. And the thing I hate the worst is when someone quotes me and totaly takes me out of context which all to all happens to often. And where has the most dirty laundry been pulled out of the closets but by my responses and threads. I think they are good learning tools. Who else goes through the trouble of calling and e-mailing and now I will be asking in person to clarify something. Most on here just seem to be satisfied with speculation and inuindos. I do not go for speculation. I go for fact. Some have said that I am putting my interpretation on the laws to somehow feel justified. That is the farthest. If they would read closley instead of wanting to bash back they would see that I am trying to get across why I think the law was written in the first place. But they prefer to debate with no hard copy of info. I do the opposite I get the hard copy of info and they twist it. So take it as you may. Like I said I do agree with you but I think the "remedied" part has to be spread as a whole and not finger pointing in my direction only. Thanks all the same. But as you can see I am not one to sit and take something that is part true and part false. That cranks my crank backwards and I do not sit and take it.

Enough said,

Kind Regards,
Daniel

see below

A couple of months ago I had set a minnow trap in a muddy river (45 mi. east of the Mississippi). Slow moving river and is stagnant and swampy in many areas. I caught 4 crayfish that look exactly like these. I put two of them in my tank and I thought my bullhead had eaten them. Just saw them again today, as I awoke to find my aquarium gravel neatly reorganized into little piles. It seems they have created quite an elaborate undergravel network that my darters use constantly. The crayfish only seem to mind the darters when they are poised near the entrance to one of their tunnels, but when the crayfish are recessed and not visible the darters venture in and out of the holes. Neat creatures. Glad to see they are still in my tank and not in my bullhead. I am going to set my minnow trap to catch more and get some pictures for comparison.