So, being the poor college student I am, I did not have enough money to setup my aquarium until last Tuesday(7 days ago). Worried about cycling it in time for my return from the convention, I purchased some of the commercially avalible bacteria cultures(I did not have an aquarium before this one to seed from.) and ammonia from the dollar store. I added enough ammonia to reach 5PPM had the ammonia been at 10% concentration(as I thought most was), but when I tested it the next day it read about .75 PPM, so I checked Nitrate and Nitrate and there was none. I decided I would proform a Ph titration(Measuring the change in basicity and thus concentration of base by reacting it with an acid.) and found the it was only 2.5%! Just what I get for buying ammonia at the dollar store...
Anyway, I added enough Ammonia to bring it up to 5PPM two days after I started cycling. I also added a half dose of the bacteria cultures. 5 days after I began I tested a measureable amount of nitrite in the water. Nitrite is still minimal and nitrate is non-existant.
It is a ten gallon tank with a HOB filter, powerhead and aerator all running. I dechlorinated with Prime and tested the Ph at about 7.8 where it has remained relatively constantly(Aside from one spike up to about 9. Perhaps due to bacterial growth?)
I know relatively little about aquaria unfortunately, so I am unsure what I should do. How do you guys reccomend I proceed? I had planned to purchase some golden shiners at the bait shop as tester/cycle starting fish, but am unsure if that is the best course of action. I have someone here who can proform any tests or add anything I need to the aquarium, so adding ammonia is not problem.
Cycling Advice?
Started by
Guest_pylodictis_*
, Apr 30 2013 01:29 PM
9 replies to this topic
#2
Michael Wolfe
-
- Board of Directors
-
- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 30 April 2013 - 02:25 PM
If you started your tank with a soil substrate, and then add some plants, it would be almost instantly cycled. Feed the tank everyday like you had 2 small fish in there (even if you don't) and you won't really need the ammonia.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#3
Guest_EricaWieser_*
Guest_EricaWieser_*
-
- Guests
Posted 30 April 2013 - 03:24 PM
You are doing wonderfully! I am so proud of you for doing a fishless cycle. 
"It is a ten gallon tank with a HOB filter, powerhead and aerator all running. I dechlorinated with Prime and tested the Ph at about 7.8 where it has remained relatively constantly(Aside from one spike up to about 9. Perhaps due to bacterial growth?)" What is your tap water's pH? What is the pH of a bit of your substrate in a cup of your tap water? Super high pH swings like that can kill the beneficial bacteria.
"5 days after I began I tested a measureable amount of nitrite in the water."
The bacteria in the bottle are alive, then. It's possible that the pH swing you mentioned might have killed them off. Aquatic organisms do best with stable pH.
" How do you guys reccomend I proceed? I had planned to purchase some golden shiners at the bait shop as tester/cycle starting fish, but am unsure if that is the best course of action." No, don't buy fish. You can cycle your tank without them just fine. We know the bacteria in your bottle works because you measured nitrite.
Here's my advice for how to proceed: Add fish flakes every day as if there were fish in the tank. Don't add any more of this questionable dollar store ammonia stuff; it might be the cause of your pH swing. Add the rest of the bottled bacteria. Measure the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate every other day and post it here.
"It is a ten gallon tank with a HOB filter, powerhead and aerator all running. I dechlorinated with Prime and tested the Ph at about 7.8 where it has remained relatively constantly(Aside from one spike up to about 9. Perhaps due to bacterial growth?)" What is your tap water's pH? What is the pH of a bit of your substrate in a cup of your tap water? Super high pH swings like that can kill the beneficial bacteria.
"5 days after I began I tested a measureable amount of nitrite in the water."
The bacteria in the bottle are alive, then. It's possible that the pH swing you mentioned might have killed them off. Aquatic organisms do best with stable pH.
" How do you guys reccomend I proceed? I had planned to purchase some golden shiners at the bait shop as tester/cycle starting fish, but am unsure if that is the best course of action." No, don't buy fish. You can cycle your tank without them just fine. We know the bacteria in your bottle works because you measured nitrite.
Here's my advice for how to proceed: Add fish flakes every day as if there were fish in the tank. Don't add any more of this questionable dollar store ammonia stuff; it might be the cause of your pH swing. Add the rest of the bottled bacteria. Measure the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate every other day and post it here.
#4
Guest_pylodictis_*
Guest_pylodictis_*
-
- Guests
Posted 30 April 2013 - 03:40 PM
You are doing wonderfully! I am so proud of you for doing a fishless cycle.
"It is a ten gallon tank with a HOB filter, powerhead and aerator all running. I dechlorinated with Prime and tested the Ph at about 7.8 where it has remained relatively constantly(Aside from one spike up to about 9. Perhaps due to bacterial growth?)" What is your tap water's pH? What is the pH of a bit of your substrate in a cup of your tap water? Super high pH swings like that can kill the beneficial bacteria.
"5 days after I began I tested a measureable amount of nitrite in the water."
The bacteria in the bottle are alive, then. It's possible that the pH swing you mentioned might have killed them off. Aquatic organisms do best with stable pH.
" How do you guys reccomend I proceed? I had planned to purchase some golden shiners at the bait shop as tester/cycle starting fish, but am unsure if that is the best course of action." No, don't buy fish. You can cycle your tank without them just fine. We know the bacteria in your bottle works because you measured nitrite.
Here's my advice for how to proceed: Add fish flakes every day as if there were fish in the tank. Don't add any more of this questionable dollar store ammonia stuff; it might be the cause of your pH swing. Add the rest of the bottled bacteria. Measure the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate every other day and post it here.
Thank you! It's nice to actually have an aquarium, it's been a long time.
I should have mentioned a couple of things, first of all the tap water here is very basic. Somewhere around 8 normally, so it's not as much of a change as I probably led you to extrapolate. Also, I have no substrate in the aquarium now.
What if I bought some other ammonia? I just don't like the "guess and check" philosiphy, though it is often effective.
Also: Would it be harmful to put fish in? It would be nice to have some assurance that everything's functioning properly.
Edited by pylodictis, 30 April 2013 - 03:49 PM.
#5
Guest_EricaWieser_*
Guest_EricaWieser_*
-
- Guests
Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:38 PM
Fish flakes are a source of ammonia. Measure the water four days after you dump a capful of them in and you'll see.What if I bought some other ammonia? I just don't like the "guess and check" philosiphy, though it is often effective.
Yes. Ammonia is toxic at even 1 ppm. You would be causing them burning pain in their gills, ammonia toxicity, and possibly death. The fish are unnecessary to the process. Fish flakes alone are enough.Also: Would it be harmful to put fish in?
#6
Guest_EricaWieser_*
Guest_EricaWieser_*
-
- Guests
Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:48 PM
I found the reference that reinforced what Michael said. Andrew, check this website out, specifically Table 2:If you started your tank with a soil substrate, and then add some plants, it would be almost instantly cycled. Feed the tank everyday like you had 2 small fish in there (even if you don't) and you won't really need the ammonia.
http://www.theaquari...ical_Filtration
Table 2 shows that plants remove even 26 ppm of ammonium in 4 hours. Like Michael said, adding plants instantly cycles the tank.
Also, he was right about soil. Soil substrate comes with a lot of beneficial bacteria (sort of like the stuff in your bottle, except free if you dig it up in your yard). You already have the handy bottle version, so for you in particular I don't know if the soil is necessary per-say. You can get large amounts of bacteria from multiple sources (soil, a friend's filter sponge, a bottle, etc).
Edited by EricaWieser, 30 April 2013 - 04:48 PM.
#7
Guest_AussiePeter_*
Guest_AussiePeter_*
-
- Guests
Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:50 PM
I find the idea of adding fish food that gets left uneaten to be the completely wrong approach. First rule in fishkeeping, never leave uneaten food in an aquarium! It may well produce the ammonia you are after, but it is also going to produce nasty bacteria that you don't want in your aquarium. Think of people who store their dirty dishes in their fridge (yes, I've know people who have done this!), everything in their fridge is going to be covered in all the nasty crap growing on the food (except in a fish tank it is not refrigerated). Maybe it works for you Erica, but I wouldn't suggest it in a million years to anyone with less experience.
Cycling tanks is a complete and utter waste of time unless there are some really good reasons (aquaculture, big fish in small tanks, saltwater, etc). Ask any fish keeper with more than 10 tanks as to whether they cycle tanks and they will laugh at you. It's a gimmick for people who have too much time and money instead of common sense. Most people usually add something from an established aquarium, something from their filter ideally, or even just water from another tank. Even if you didn't have anything to help start things off I don't think it really matters at all, especially if initial fish densities are a bit lower and you go easy on the feeding (I've ignored this and still never had a problem). Been plenty of threads on this topic before, seems to be my most common rant on the nanfa forum!
Cheers
Peter
Cycling tanks is a complete and utter waste of time unless there are some really good reasons (aquaculture, big fish in small tanks, saltwater, etc). Ask any fish keeper with more than 10 tanks as to whether they cycle tanks and they will laugh at you. It's a gimmick for people who have too much time and money instead of common sense. Most people usually add something from an established aquarium, something from their filter ideally, or even just water from another tank. Even if you didn't have anything to help start things off I don't think it really matters at all, especially if initial fish densities are a bit lower and you go easy on the feeding (I've ignored this and still never had a problem). Been plenty of threads on this topic before, seems to be my most common rant on the nanfa forum!
Cheers
Peter
#8
Guest_EricaWieser_*
Guest_EricaWieser_*
-
- Guests
Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:42 PM
I agree. I use live plants, myself. Not everyone is willing to / can grow plants, and not everyone has an established tank on hand to take a filter sponge from. But every new tank has the problem of high ammonia about a week after the first feeding. For the people who refuse to get plants, won't buy bottled bacteria, and don't have a filter sponge from an established tank, feeding the tank for four or five weeks with fish flakes is a practical way to establish beneficial bacteria. I've done that method in real life and it does work. There isn't a problem with gross bacteria or anything like that; that's more of a theoretical problem than what happens when you really fish food seed a tank in real life. I do agree that there should be some sort of current in every tank. The nastiest tanks I've seen have been stagnant ones. If the surface of the water is not broken, a skin can form, and that can get gross. But yeah, I think my point is: I've comforted too many people who lost fish about a week into setting up a new tank to think that the ammonia spike after setup isn't a real thing. If fishless cycling can prevent fish death, why not do it? It's simple. It prevents death. There aren't any real downsides. *shrugs*Cycling tanks is a complete and utter waste of time
#9
Guest_rjmtx_*
Guest_rjmtx_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:51 AM
Peter's right on using some type of "seed" to start tanks. It's really the best way to do it. Cycling with fish can be done with no mortality if done correctly; I've done it many times and advised countless people on it when working at a LFS. I've had/seen plenty of fish that cycled tanks go on to breed and live for years. It's not some evil game of death like it's made out to be here. That's my 2 cents...
#10
Guest_HicksFish_*
Guest_HicksFish_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:41 AM
I found some information on the Seachem website regarding using Prime during cycling that I thought was interesting: "Prime will bind ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate for 24-48 hours. At which point, if they are still present, will be released." Regarding cycling, they go on to say that "even when bound to Prime, the ammonia will provide enough of a food source for the beneficial bacteria to survive and reproduce".
I was wondering if this could have thrown off your initial test results.
I was wondering if this could have thrown off your initial test results.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
NANFA Youtube Channel 
