I bought some wild caught gilberti a few weeks ago after having such great success with my evergladeis. When they arrived one was dead in the bag and had filamentous threads coming off it. I didn't think much of it, but then about a week later several of my fish had the same thing. I put them in a hospital tank and added some salt and raised the temperature (assuming it was ich). The fish died the next day and had developed lesions down to the bone. I went to the store and bought malachite green, assuming that it was a fungal issue, I dosed the tank with malachite green and waited, another fish died, so I spot treated the remaining sick fish right on the infection. The fluffy stuff didn't die in the slightest. The fish eventually died and the remaining fish seemed healthy. A few weeks went by and now suddenly I see most of the remaining 5 fish are infected with the same thing.
I caught one of the fish and took a small sample of the fluff and examined it under a microscope. I also took a picture (sorry for the crappy pic I didn't have time to get a perfect one).
I decided to try copper sulfate on all 5 remaining fish. I've got them in a hospital tank and have dosed them according to these instructions: Stock solution= 21 grams of Copper Sulfate 1 pint of distilled water. Shake well. Use 1 drop per every gallon of aquarium water= .15ppm.
This stuff is extremely aggressive, fish seem to die in a matter of days. Any idea what it is or how to treat it?
Wow, that's bad. Looks a filamentous fungus. Generally animals only contract fungal infections when they're already in bad shape. I've seen some of my old pygmy livebearers develop similar lesions and then die without any other fish developing them. I can only think of one fish I've had that recovered from a fungal infection, a mature texas cichlid, and they are of much hardier stock. You could try dilute hydrogen peroxide baths, but I think the stress of removing them from the aquarium is likely to make things worse. Probably the best thing right now is just to maintain good water quality and hope for the best.
Sorry. Good example of buyer beware, especially with wild caught fish. Did you buy them on aquabid? If so, PM me the seller if you don't mind, I'm curious.
I think it's Flexibacter (aka Columnaris) - not a fungus. Kanamycin, Cephalexin, or Furan drugs sometimes work if you treat it ASAP, but as you've seen it kills quickly. It's a very common problem on newly caught fish, especially in soft/low conductivity water where they tend to lose body salts quickly when frightened. (Salt in the collecting bucket usually helps). I dont think malachite green or copper are effective on it. The fish may have been too stressed from collection to be shipped yet - he/she probably should have held them longer until they were settled in and recovered from collecting stress.
I think it's Flexibacter (aka Columnaris) - not a fungus. Kanamycin, Cephalexin, or Furan drugs sometimes work if you treat it ASAP, but as you've seen it kills quickly. It's a very common problem on newly caught fish, especially in soft/low conductivity water where they tend to lose body salts quickly when frightened. (Salt in the collecting bucket usually helps). I dont think malachite green or copper are effective on it. The fish may have been too stressed from collection to be shipped yet - he/she probably should have held them longer until they were settled in and recovered from collecting stress.
Agreed. Fungal infections are much rarer in fish that most people think. I personally vote for the Furan based meds, but you want to treat in a separate container because it will stain silicone sealant.
The fish may have been too stressed from collection to be shipped yet - he/she probably should have held them longer until they were settled in and recovered from collecting stress.
I agree.
Also, I have received several e-mails from individuals asking me why their wild caught Elassoma died from white filamentous disease. Zapins, you are not the first to have this problem with wild caught Elassoma. They are very fragile. In my experience the captive bred Elassoma are much hardier. None of my captive bred Elassoma ever had this problem. I moved them from Ohio to North Carolina and kept them (all 84) in a one gallon ice cream bucket for several days, then dumped them into DH 0 water (the Ohio water had been DH 17), surely a stressful situation, but still none of them got that. This white filamentous disease has something to do with wild caught fish. Once you get your colony going and tank raise your own fry I think this will not be a continuing issue.
Thanks for your help guys. I was amazing able to find Furan-2 by API (with a valid expiry date no less!) in my LFS. I have dosed according to the instructions on the package. Now we will wait and see if they get better. I also noticed that another of the antibiotics they had for sale specifically said it treats columnaris, I think it was erythromycin. Should I buy this as well and dose with it on top of the furan?
I suppose we will know within a few hours if the fish are making a comeback...
Also, someone else on another forum gave me this advice about treating with salt. Since this forum specializes in north american species I figure you would know best if Elassomas are salt-sensitive? Would this course of action be beneficial or detrimental?
You are in a crisis and must act now situation. Up the salt. Up the salt a LOT. What do you currently have in there for salt?
Be ready to destroy the bacteria colonies in your filter and have to recycle. Salt is very damaging to many groups of aquatic organisms, and fish are surprisingly tolerant to short term exposures to it. If you don't already have a TABLE spoon of salt in per gallon, get there now! If you do, go for two. I would start a 3 day panic salt attack. 1 table spoon of salt per gallon on day one, up that to two for day two and 3 for day three. Day four is a massive water change and do the math to get the water back down to 1 table spoon of salt. Be careful on day three... that may be too much salt for the fish to deal with. Be ready to do that water change in as few as 6 hours rather than 24.
Salt gets dissolved in tank water and added as brine... don't dump spoonfuls of salt into your tank.
The problem with adding a second medication after adding a first is the molecules may interact with one another. It's safer to use activated carbon to completely remove one medication before adding another.
No fish likes salinity shock. Sick fish are even more susceptible. Whatever salt you add, add it slowly.
Now, I would tell you to add salt as well, but as Erica said not too harshly. One tablespoon per five gallons never seems to hurt anything. That is the level that many native fish keepers keep their tanks at for a preventative measure. Might hurt plants though if kept at that level or higher longterm. Use noniodized salt with no anti-caking agents. Grocery store Kosher salt is usually okay.
Will do tomorrow. I think the Furan treatment is working. Its been in there for 4 hours now and the infection seems to be mushy looking rather than stiff and bristling. I think it might be working
I'll update when I wake up. The fish will either be dead or cured I think...
Well there seems to be a silver lining to this story after all.
When I first netted the sick fish and transferred them to the hospital tank I must have caught an egg they had laid. I removed it from the hospital tank before adding meds. I wanted to see what it looked like under my microscope. I've had it in a petri dish for the last few days.
Lo and behold it is actually fertile and developing nicely.
Since its in a petri dish I suppose it will technically be born "in vitro" haha
I doubt she laid just one egg - there's probably more. Stress can trigger breeding sometimes.
"oh crap... we're gonna die ... let's do it" Nice pix and video!
The salt treatment is definitely working (unless its the salt and Furan-2 working synergistically).
I'm at 1.6 tablespoons / gallon concentration right now, and the white strands have mostly died off leaving behind small red lesions where they used to be rooted. I'm going to increase it to about 2/gallon and then keep it there for a few days or a week until I'm sure the infection has passed.
I think I saw a nic cage movie once where that was the whole plot... must hold true for some people too!
Yay! - love to hear recovery stories - they are NOT common with Flexibacter!
1.6 Tbsp/gal salt is about 1/5 seawater strength - I would not go any higher with Elassoma.
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