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Darters

Started by Guest_featherbrain_* , May 23 2013 07:36 PM

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16 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_featherbrain_*

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 07:36 PM

Here I am again! This time with several darters which I think (I have my fingers crossed, I spent a lot of time working on them) I have correctly IDed. I was out again today and was quite proud of myself for being able to identify several of the fish while I was in the water rather than having to wait and identify them on the computer.
1. This is unfortunately the only photo I got before it "darted" away. I believe that it is Fantail Darter, but am not confident enough to rule out Stripetail. It looks like it has a pigmented base to the spinous dorsal fin, but I'm not entirely sure it's just the quality of the photo. It also looks like it has a more pointed snout (which, from what I've read, "points" towards Fantail).
2. Everything seems perfect for Tennessee Darter (and a gorgeous one at that!), but it appears to me missing the red spot at the front of the spinous dorsal fin. I saw two or three females right in the same area with very distinct red spots. Is this just a poorly marked individual? Also, I'm curious about the taxonomy of these guys. Peterson has them split from Tennessee Snubnose but the Fishes of Tennessee doesn't, is this just because Peterson is newer?
3. I'm hoping this is a Bluebreast Darter. I put in a lot of time working on this one. I went with Bluebreast because it has a relatively unmarked cheek except for the dark post-orbital spot (ruling out Redline). In the second dorsal and anal fin, there are dark marginal and pale submarginal bands.
4 and 5. On the walk back to the field station I checked out a tiny stream that runs in to the Little Pigeon River. The water was really murky making it difficult to get a good look at the fish. I initially thought these were Creek Chubs, but then I noticed that they were lacking the black spot at the front of the dorsal fin. So I'm defaulting on Blacknose Dace, but I don't really know why. I wish I got a better profile to see the mouth shape. Also, the Saffron Shiner in the background of 5 is unusually pot-bellied, is this a pregnant female?

Thanks again for all the help you have already provided!

Attached Files

IDa1.JPG 188.13KB 1 downloads
IDa2.JPG 101.81KB 2 downloads
IDa3.JPG 117.19KB 29 downloads
IDa4.JPG 116.71KB 1 downloads
IDa5.JPG 88.97KB 0 downloads

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#2 Guest_Casper_*

Guests

Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:10 PM

Your doing pretty well but i also want to hear what fine tuning clues Dave provides. Number 3 i think can be fine tuned a bit more, a higher altitude version of your studied answer. I may know where you are snorkeling... you can use the name of the site to aid in the naming of number 3. Read Fishes of TN a bit more regarding your choice.
Is not that water COLD up there? Surely you are wearing a wetsuit.
Pregnant belly. Keep looking, there are a lot of interesting things going on this time of year!

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#3 mattknepley

NANFA Member

Smack-dab between the Savannah and the Saluda.

Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:20 PM

I can't tell you what he is or what he ain't, but darter #2 is one good looking fish! Thanks for posting!

Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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#4 Michael Wolfe

Board of Directors

North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:22 PM

I will answer one of your questions and say "yes" there have been more than a few splits between Fishes of Tenn and the new Peterson's Guide

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#5 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 10:02 PM

Your first photo is a fantail. Stripetails have a subterminal black band on the first dorsal which even this photo is good enough to show that it's not there. Stripetails also have a bolder stripe pattern on the tail, in a fairly high contrast black and white, compared to the fantails being more golden brown with lower contrast with the lighter areas, and fewer stripes overall.

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#6 Guest_IsaacSzabo_*

Guests

Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:46 AM

Photos 2 and 3 are really nice!

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#7 Guest_featherbrain_*

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:21 PM

Number 3 i think can be fine tuned a bit more, a higher altitude version of your studied answer. I may know where you are snorkeling... you can use the name of the site to aid in the naming of number 3. Read Fishes of TN a bit more regarding your choice.
Is not that water COLD up there? Surely you are wearing a wetsuit.

I am snorkeling the little pigeon river which is walking distance from the UTK field station that I'm stationed at. The water is cold, but not nearly as cold as I was expecting. I had a wetsuit on when I took that picture, but I have been back since with only a wetsuit jacket (the top half) and it wasn't too bad. I've done more research and I can't come up with anything else but Bluebreast Darter for that one... ](*,)

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#8 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:47 PM

I hope I am on point as far as my suggestion goes, but I think the fins may be more diagnostic than the breast on #3...

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#9 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 01:49 PM

And if I am correct on my hunch, I am incredibly impressed with that photo. I snorkeled with (I think) these same fish two weeks ago. Didn't see any males but the small juvies/females were incredibly flighty and hard to approach.

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#10 Guest_featherbrain_*

Guests

Posted 25 May 2013 - 04:46 PM

I think the fins may be more diagnostic than the breast on #3...

Yes, I wasn't even looking at the breast to ID this one. I went with Bluebreast because of the fins. In the second dorsal and anal fin, there are dark marginal and pale submarginal bands, I though this was a good indication of Bluebreast? I can't seem to find anything else that has that in combination with the other features on this fish.
As far as the photo goes, thanks! This gal (or perhaps juv male) wasn't too flighty, I was able to get quite a few photos as I slowly approached.

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#11 Guest_Casper_*

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:22 PM

GreenBriar.
You should see lots of neat things there. I am suppose to be up there next week.

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#12 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:02 AM

I'm suggesting that #3 might be a Greenfin Darter (Etheostoma chlorobranchium). I'm not 100% on it though.

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#13 Guest_Casper_*

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 10:05 AM

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#14 Guest_featherbrain_*

Guests

Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:50 PM

Oh ok, that makes a lot more sense now, somehow I was overlooking that one! Thanks guys!
Any ideas on 4 and 5?

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#15 Guest_Casper_*

Guests

Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:50 PM

4 and 5 are not good side shots... you really want to see the head and snout for these fish.
Regarding number 5. The lower of the 2 fish.
Note the wide caudal peduncle. (sp?) The near apparent absence of bold scales, these being very fine scales. The pretty golden flecking on the upper sides and the black fleck markings on the upper side. They will be very "limp" in your hand.
This fish likes cool water and around here, Chattanooga, is only found in springs and cool spring flows.
The males can be really spectacular with a brassy burnt orange side.
Their face is very definitive and unique.
As for #4 i cannot be confident nor can i on the upper fish of #5.

Greenfin Darters are one of our most handsome fish. They get much more impressive than your photo. Sometimes they are skittish other times calm... like many darters. A very nice picture is found in the Fishes of TN. This is one of the fish i was able to identify on my own.

You have much more to see!

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#16 Guest_featherbrain_*

Guests

Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:45 PM

From your hints and from what I've found, I think Blacknose Dace is the best fit. Is this correct?

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#17 Guest_Casper_*

Guests

Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:47 PM

A common but handsome fish.

Years ago i drove by the field office and wetsuits were hanging outside to dry. I stopped in and met a fella who had been filming fish, but not in that water. I think they were Alabama Shiners but he was far from their water. I cannot remember his name and my memory fades.
Am i correct in that the field office is upstream of the public area known as Greenbriar?
You should see Hellbenders too. Trout. Another unique darter with distinct markings on his side in the deeper water. Shiners with painted faces swimming with the trout. Hum... great spot but man oh man is that water cold. I shivered uncontrollably for an hour, driving home in the summer, windows up and heater blasting. A warm plate of BBQ brought me back to a subtle chattering.
Also look for mounds of stones below riffle runs. 3' in diameter, about a foot high. They are not made by hands.