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Logperch of Wisconsin and Illinois

Started by Guest_BenCantrell_* , May 23 2013 11:02 PM

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9 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_BenCantrell_*

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:02 PM

This should be a fun discussion. I've caught quite a few logperch while microfishing in Illinois and Wisconsin over the past few years. I've noticed that there is a lot of variation in their appearance, particularly the patterns on their sides, their snout shape, and their snout to eye relationships. I found a lot of good information in Newt's "darterbase" forum thread from a few years ago.

http://forum.nanfa.o...ntra-questions/

I haven't read any research papers related to new species and subspecies of logperch, so I apologize in advance if I'm not up to date on the latest classifications. If anyone would like to point me to good papers, I'd be happy to read them. In the meantime though, I want to share some photos of logperch I've caught and hopefully learn some of the ID characteristics of the various species / subspecies / intergrades present in Wisconsin and Illinois.

Wisconsin River, Prairie du Sac dam, WI
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Yahara River, downtown Madison, WI - apologies for the bad photo, it's an old one
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Mukwonago River, Mukwonago, WI
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Illinois River tributary north of Peoria, IL
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creek to remain unnamed near Wolf Lake, IL
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Any help, insight, or general discussion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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#2 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:45 AM

That Wolf Lake area fish looks a little like a blotch side logperch with the orange/red in the first dorsal, and somewhat heavier lateral "blotches".

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#3 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:39 AM

The Coulee Region of WI and SE MN seem to have the same exact coloration of Logperch as Madison. And the Mukwonago kind looks really strange, I love it!

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#4 Guest_BenCantrell_*

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:49 PM

Here are some head shots of the last fish. I'm not exactly sure where the nape starts. Is this a fully scaled, unscaled or partially scaled nape?

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Edited by BenCantrell, 24 May 2013 - 06:09 PM.

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#5 Guest_BenCantrell_*

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:26 PM

I was in Mukwonago, WI today so I caught a few logperch and took head shots.

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Do these look like unscaled napes?

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#6 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 08:53 PM

Ben,

The nape is the dorsal surface between the posterior edge of the skull and the dorsal fin insertion. I would consider all of those napes as fully-scaled.

In terms of taxonomy, nothing new has come up since the discussion between Todd and Nathan that you posted (as far as I know). A comprehensive study of P. caprodes is badly wanting, but that will be quite a Herculean task. For now, I wouldn't put much stock into the subspecies designations and the subspecies rank in general hasn't gained much traction among Etheostomatine specialists.

Thanks for posting the photos, though -- always good to document the variation!

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#7 Guest_BenCantrell_*

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 09:09 PM

Thanks Blake. Sounds like I should keep all these photos handy but shouldn't hold my breath for a consensus any time soon about subspecies or species.

Here's a side view of today's Mukwonago, WI logperch. Quite interesting patterns, especially towards the rear of the fish.
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#8 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:53 AM

BTW, I was only referring to the fully-scaled nape of the fish in post 4. The glare on the nape in photos of post #5 makes it hard to tell -- looks like it could be partially-scaled, but that's a stab in the dark at best.

Yes, interesting pattern on your most recent P. caprodes. Try to capture photos of the mouth closed, at least the anterior dorsal fin flared, and pelvic fins held against the body. If you can't get all of these in one shot such as in a phototank, get them by taking multiple shots of each individual in hand. Dorsal pattern and scalation of nape (as you know) photos are important as well. If you cover these bases, we can stretch out our necks and chuck around ideas.

Glad to see your interest in photographing logperch variation. I've never sampled Wisconsin, but I appreciate seeing the photos (even if it isn't as fun as in the flesh). I've thought about doing something similar for E. spectabile here in Illinois.