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blackwater extract...

Started by Guest_Auban_* , Jul 05 2013 08:22 PM

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15 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 08:22 PM

well, for years now i have been boiling oak bark to make my blackwater extract. it seems, however, that their may be an easier way to get that nice dark look. chicory. it brews like tea or coffee, but doesnt have any of the harmful stimulants. i added it to my tank to see how the fish would do, and they seem to actually enjoy it. i see them coming out of hiding quite a bit more, they feed more aggressively, and are generally acting more comfortable. all these things are the exact same things i see when using oak bark, indian almond leaves, alder cones, etc.

its cheap and easy and it seems to work great. just figured i would let everyone here know.

this is a pic of my 65 gallon natives tank right now. the chicory product i used is an instant drink variety i got from wally world, but im pretty sure any chicory would work.
you cant really see the fish here since i wiped the glass and spooked them all just before taking the pic(which is why there is so much duckweed floating around...), and the water is so dark you cant really see the six or so in the back left corner.
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#2 Guest_Yeahson421_*

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 08:26 AM

Very cool! I will keep this in mind!

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#3 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:38 PM

This is awesome. I went to Walmart tonight and couldn't find it, but I'd like to try it. How long have you been using it? I used to buy blackwater extract and would go through it like crazy. Great for stuff like Enneacanthus and I'm sure any slow-water coastal plain species would appreciate it.

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#4 Guest_kamikazi_*

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:10 AM

I boil oak leaves, but that becomes more difficult during the summer when old leaves are hard to come by. I might have to try this stuff out.

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#5 Guest_gzeiger_*

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 05:53 PM

I used to just put oak leaves in the tank. It only takes a day or two to get a nice dark look. They do interfere with rooted plants obviously, but for an unplanted tank they provide a great invertebrate food source too.

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#6 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 07:38 PM

ok, after testing this stuff, it seems that there is a fair amount of sugar in it.
small doses dont seem to cause any problems, but adding too much at once can cause the tnak to cloud up for a couple days.
even so, it didnt kill any of my fish, but i wouldnt suggest going from pure clean water to completely dark over night. ease into it over a period of a few days.

now, that said, boiling oak bark is still my favorite method of making black water extract. it is much more potent than the leaves.
just be sure to get dead oak bark. the live stuff has too much sugar in it.

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#7 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:51 PM

Blackwater - that would describe most of the streams in Southern MS. The water is the color of tea. It is safe to drink but tastes strongly of tannins.

I can collect my own blackwater, but I have really seen no advantage to it.

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#8 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:17 AM

Blackwater - that would describe most of the streams in Southern MS. The water is the color of tea. It is safe to drink but tastes strongly of tannins.

I can collect my own blackwater, but I have really seen no advantage to it.

to be honest, i have seen very little in the way of actual need for tannins in the water. even all my "swamp" species have bred and seem fine without it.
that said, it does seem to help fish come out of hiding.
still though, i really just like tinkering. i like knowing what will work if i really want that dark look, and i dont feel like paying for indian almond leaves or blackwater extract.

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#9 Guest_EricaLyons_*

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:12 AM

Have you tried regular old black tea? I'm not sure what would happen to fish, would they die from the caffeine?

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#10 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:37 PM

yep.
when i use actual tea or coffee, it usually ends up in a bacterial bloom. im not sure if its the caffeine that produces the bloom or if it releases too much sugar... either way, it seems that it usually ends in a bacterial bloom.
thats why i prefer oak bark. it never seems to result in a bacterial bloom or cloudy water. to be honest, im really not sure why that is.

on a related note, i have not seen much of a difference in behaviour of the fish when adding oak bark tannins or coffee or tea. im not sure if there is enough caffeine to affect them.

what i do know, however, is that adding coffee or tea will not kill fish. unless, of course, it causes a bacterial bloom and you dont crank up the surface agitation. then they act like suffocating fish.

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#11 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:37 PM

I think E. gilberti would make the perfect test organism for this experiment. Let us know how it turns out

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#12 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:40 PM

I think E. gilberti would make the perfect test organism for this experiment. Let us know how it turns out

i already tested coffee and tea on them a while ago. i really didnt see much of a difference. i was hoping they would at least come out of hiding more often, but they didnt .
it was the same for oak bark tannins. they are just really freaking shy fish.

bluefin killies and rainwater killies, on the other hand, both came out more often. they stopped schooling and explored more often. that was the same for coffee, tea, and oak bark tannins. i just had to be careful with tea and coffee. add it too fast and the water clouds up. and thats not good...

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#13 Guest_EricaLyons_*

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:20 PM

Is it okay to comment off topic a bit?

i already tested coffee and tea on them a while ago. i really didnt see much of a difference. i was hoping they would at least come out of hiding more often, but they didnt .
it was the same for oak bark tannins. they are just really freaking shy fish.

Hand feed them. If they have to come forward to get a grindal worm to eat to survive, they will. Your scary giant face in front of the fish tank won't be enough to deter them once they taste the delicious-ness that is grindal worms. Don't have a blackworm population in-tank. It means no feeding them for three months, yes, and is good for breeding them, but they won't need to deal with you to get their food, so they won't.

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#14 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 11:58 AM

There's some evidence that natural dissolved organic matter from wood and leaves may be important for ion uptake in some fishes in very soft ion-poor water. For example: http://www.lsu.edu/f...ezetal2008b.pdf

If the water is not ultra-low in ions then the DOC may not be needed physiologically. (It may still have behavioral benefits)

to be honest, i have seen very little in the way of actual need for tannins in the water. even all my "swamp" species have bred and seem fine without it. that said, it does seem to help fish come out of hiding.

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#15 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 10:36 PM

Gerald, water in S. MS typically measures about 17 TDS (measured on my cheapo Hach meter), so there may be something to that.

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#16 Guest_Auban_*

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:37 AM

There's some evidence that natural dissolved organic matter from wood and leaves may be important for ion uptake in some fishes in very soft ion-poor water. For example: http://www.lsu.edu/f...ezetal2008b.pdf

If the water is not ultra-low in ions then the DOC may not be needed physiologically. (It may still have behavioral benefits)

the behavioral effects is what i have seen most. they have bred in both liquid rock and soft acidic water.
but, in both cases, they seem more calm when black water extract is added.
or tannins in any form, for that matter.