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Good spots in and around the Catawba River (NC piedmont)?


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#1 Guest_kamikazi_*

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:49 AM

I got my permits and read up on the regulations and I'm ready to go out looking for some fish.

Anyone know of any good spots in the following Counties in NC:
Burke, Caldwell, Iredell, Catawba, Lincoln, Cleveland, Gaston and Mecklenburg?

I'm mainly looking for nice looking darters, daces and shiners.

#2 Guest_EricaLyons_*

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:18 AM

Gerald Pottern is our regional rep and is very knowledgeable about places to find fish.

If you happen to be planning a trip in the Winston Salem area and want some random NANFAn and her friends to join in, post a group event in the outings section of the forum. I haven't been out on a river yet this year and I have a feeling with this lovely 80+ weather I can talk some normally hermit friends into venturing out, too.

Edited by EricaLyons, 17 July 2013 - 09:19 AM.


#3 Guest_kamikazi_*

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:36 AM

Gerald Pottern is our regional rep and is very knowledgeable about places to find fish.

If you happen to be planning a trip in the Winston Salem area and want some random NANFAn and her friends to join in, post a group event in the outings section of the forum. I haven't been out on a river yet this year and I have a feeling with this lovely 80+ weather I can talk some normally hermit friends into venturing out, too.


At this point I don't forsee going farther east than the I-77 corridor, but I will keep that in mind.

#4 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:44 AM

For Catawba greenhead, fieryblack, greenfin, spottail, swallowtail, highfin shiners, highback chub, bluehead chub, rosyside dace, speckled killie, seagreen and tesselated darters, etc try the upper tribs of Dutchmans Creek in eastern Lincoln: Leepers, Lippard, Ballard, Anderson, etc. Lower Dutchman Cr tribs in NE Gaston Co (Stanley and S.Stanley creeks) also have introduced redlip shiners, which hybridize with greenheads, and some of those hybrids look remarkably like yellowfin shiners. That was ~10 yrs ago I last sampled around there so redlips might be more widespread now.

BTW its HOT if you haven't noticed. Freeze a few 8 oz water bottles (2/3 full, lay on their sides to freeze so they dont crack) that you can float (one at a time) in your cooler so fish don't overheat. I'd also suggest adding 1 teasp/gal salt in the collecting bucket/cooler before you start catching fish. Small fish can lose critical body salts within the first few minutes when stressed, especially in very soft water (nearly all of NC).

Edited by gerald, 17 July 2013 - 10:45 AM.


#5 Guest_kamikazi_*

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:53 AM

For Catawba greenhead, fieryblack, greenfin, spottail, swallowtail, highfin shiners, highback chub, bluehead chub, rosyside dace, speckled killie, seagreen and tesselated darters, etc try the upper tribs of Dutchmans Creek in eastern Lincoln: Leepers, Lippard, Ballard, Anderson, etc. Lower Dutchman Cr tribs in NE Gaston Co (Stanley and S.Stanley creeks) also have introduced redlip shiners, which hybridize with greenheads, and some of those hybrids look remarkably like yellowfin shiners. That was ~10 yrs ago I last sampled around there so redlips might be more widespread now.

BTW its HOT if you haven't noticed. Freeze a few 8 oz water bottles (2/3 full, lay on their sides to freeze so they dont crack) that you can float (one at a time) in your cooler so fish don't overheat. I'd also suggest adding 1 teasp/gal salt in the collecting bucket/cooler before you start catching fish. Small fish can lose critical body salts within the first few minutes when stressed, especially in very soft water (nearly all of NC).


Thanks for the tips gerald!

#6 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:52 PM

I'm about two hours north of you, but I've been meaning to make a day trip to play in NC a bit. Not sure if/when that'll happen this summer though. Let me know if you head up near the VA border or are interested in anything in VA. I'm your guy :)

#7 mattknepley

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:02 AM

"Lower Dutchman Cr tribs in NE Gaston Co (Stanley and S.Stanley creeks) also have introduced redlip shiners, which hybridize with greenheads, and some of those hybrids look remarkably like yellowfin shiners."

Greenheads; genetic and taxonomic menace, or benign agents of ecological change? Discuss amongst yourselves...
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#8 Guest_fritz_*

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:30 PM

This is the latest from Dr. Mollie Cashner:

Well, I'm prepping a manuscript to be submitted VERY soon...
My data show that there are 3 species: N. chlorocephalus in Catawba. N. cf. chlorocephalus in the Broad, N. lutipinnis Westward (though LOTS of genetic and morphological variation there). The Saluda is weird. There has been unidirectional gene flow from N. lutipinnis into the Saluda populations, and there are patches of N. lutipinnis - like morphologies (as these guys from this video suggest). That gray/steel blue color on the head is characteristic of breeding N. lutipinnis but not the other two. SO- the Saluda is a big fat mess, but the other systems are much nicer and neater. That's the long and short of it. I'd love to know if anyone has noticed that steel blue color on other populations of cf. chlorocephalus or chlorocephalus, as I have only seen it in the Saluda and in no other populations in their ranges.


#9 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 07:06 PM

Thanks for that update! Very interesting stuff!

#10 Guest_kamikazi_*

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:59 PM

For Catawba greenhead, fieryblack, greenfin, spottail, swallowtail, highfin shiners, highback chub, bluehead chub, rosyside dace, speckled killie, seagreen and tesselated darters, etc try the upper tribs of Dutchmans Creek in eastern Lincoln: Leepers, Lippard, Ballard, Anderson, etc. Lower Dutchman Cr tribs in NE Gaston Co (Stanley and S.Stanley creeks) also have introduced redlip shiners, which hybridize with greenheads, and some of those hybrids look remarkably like yellowfin shiners.


Are there specific access points to upper and lower tribs to dutchmans creek?

#11 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 04:56 PM

It's been too many years since I last sampled around there, and I imagine there's way more housing development now. NC-DWQ has done fish samples in Lincoln Co on Anderson Cr, Forney Cr, Howards Cr, Indian Cr, Killian Cr, Leepers Cr, and Pott Cr. See the DWQ Enviro Sciences Section website (IBI Fish Data) for specific locations, lat/long, and species lists. Then just drive around and look at each bridge. Google maps might help too. If you're lucky there might even be creek-side greenway trails now.

#12 Guest_kamikazi_*

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 07:57 AM

It's been too many years since I last sampled around there, and I imagine there's way more housing development now. NC-DWQ has done fish samples in Lincoln Co on Anderson Cr, Forney Cr, Howards Cr, Indian Cr, Killian Cr, Leepers Cr, and Pott Cr. See the DWQ Enviro Sciences Section website (IBI Fish Data) for specific locations, lat/long, and species lists. Then just drive around and look at each bridge. Google maps might help too. If you're lucky there might even be creek-side greenway trails now.


I've already looked into the greenway trail and there aren't any in the dutchmans creek basin. But I do know of some in other locations along creeks in the region. I guess I will have to try the bridge method if I want to collect there. I think I have too many possible locations as it is.

I will check out that website, thanks!

#13 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:52 AM

Here's the site:

http://portal.ncdenr.../bau/ncibi-data

Your area would be Catawba Basin. Lots of good stuff in there.

#14 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 12:49 PM

On May 17 I caught a breeding group of "N. cf. chlorocephalus" in Hollands Creek between Spindale and Forest City, Rutherford Co NC (trib of Second Broad River). These had a pale gray to white head (no gold or red), red eyes, red body behind head, bright white dorsal, and dull white to cream/yellowish on all other fins (pect, pelv, anal, caud). Viewed from above, their heads did look pale blue-gray to me, like light-colored lutipinnis. Sorry I did not get any pics. Here's a Todd Crail photo of a similar NC Broad River specimen with blue-gray head, on Mark's website: http://jonahsaquariu...ocephalus04.htm

I will email this to Dr. Cashner since she may not see it here.

This is the latest from Dr. Mollie Cashner: Well, I'm prepping a manuscript to be submitted VERY soon...
My data show that there are 3 species: N. chlorocephalus in Catawba. N. cf. chlorocephalus in the Broad, N. lutipinnis Westward (though LOTS of genetic and morphological variation there). The Saluda is weird. There has been unidirectional gene flow from N. lutipinnis into the Saluda populations, and there are patches of N. lutipinnis - like morphologies (as these guys from this video suggest). That gray/steel blue color on the head is characteristic of breeding N. lutipinnis but not the other two. SO- the Saluda is a big fat mess, but the other systems are much nicer and neater. That's the long and short of it. I'd love to know if anyone has noticed that steel blue color on other populations of cf. chlorocephalus or chlorocephalus, as I have only seen it in the Saluda and in no other populations in their ranges.





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