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Dirt Road Darters and More


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#1 mattknepley

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:00 PM

Spent a little time on what has turned out to be a pretty interesting headwater type "stream". As far as I know, this little crick has no name. It drains beef grazing area and the back side of Ninety Six National Historic Site. (I was not on NHS property.) In times of normal rain the creek flows, barely, over a dirt road in one spot. During low rain it is reduced to a trickle, and during the recent drought only deeper pools remained. With the substantial rains we've been having this summer in my corner of SC the water at the crossing was the highest I've seen it. Even so, I didn't have much hope for it, but my visit was productive; especially considering I didn't get more than 40' or so from the road crossing.

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Immediately upstream of the crossing is a pool about 35' or so long. There was a surprisingly deep channel through it, given the pool's modest size and water flow. Turned up a largemouth bass, three creek chubsuckers, some sunfish, and a young adult bullfrog. And a modest population of Eastern gambusia.

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I wonder how large that bass might grow. It still looks pretty young, but since the creek was dried up to the point up (until maybe last year) where he couldn't have swum upstream over the road, I'm guessing its parents are somewhere close by. Downed tree branches and very slightly undercut banks provided in-stream cover. The bottom was either clay or small gravel.

Downstream from the crossing it is a whole different environment. The downstream side of the road crossing acts as a tailrace of sorts. Immediately off the crossing the water moves (relatively) quickly. It was the only place I could see a current without having to toss in a blade of grass. Below the outflow, there was an algae occupied tongue of gravel/rock/silt. There are a couple shallow pools, but mostly it is shallow flowing water. Dominant cover was emergent plant life. Any guesses on the one with the spear shaped leaves?

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The dipnetting was good here, too. The plants grew almost a foot out into the "tailrace". From the grass and other plants in the current I pulled two Carolina darters (Etheostoma collis) and six yellow bullheads (Ameiurus natalis) in just four or five passes of the net! Too bad bullheads grow up to be such brutes, they're cute little buggers when they're little! In a shallow pool below the tailrace I caught two more E. collis and a bullfrog tad.

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So there you have it. The write up is bigger than the stream. Nothing fancy, but it was still fun to get out and to have something to share!
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#2 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:10 PM

Bullfrog is a green frog. See the skin folds running down its sides from the eyes back. Green's have these Bull's don't.

#3 mattknepley

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:25 PM

Bullfrog is a green frog. See the skin folds running down its sides from the eyes back. Green's have these Bull's don't.

Right you are! I knew bullfrogs have many black spots when they are young that they lose as they age. Keyed in on those and not that fold. Thanks for the correcton. Reckon the tad to be a green then, as well?
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:34 PM

Greens are more common in streams, but I am not sure on that one. There are ways to tell the two larvae apart, but I have not really looked into it.

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 06:58 PM

In general, R. catesbeiana tadpoles have more speckling, especially on their dorsal fin as shown by your tadpole photo. I've also noticed that the pale belly (venter) extends up much further laterally on R. catesbeiana than on R. clamitans. Your tadpole is a bullfrog, but I agree with Matt that the adult frog you have photographed is R. clamitans, as shown by the dorsolateral folds. The other differences in the two during the larval stage include characters like mouthparts that I never seem to use. Just look at photos of the two and you'll pick up the differences, whether cognizant or not.

The Peterson's Guide to Eastern Amphibians and Reptiles and Trauth's The Amphibians and Reptiles of Arkansas have some pretty good keys and drawings (or photographs) of the larval stages of many commonly encountered larval amphibians.

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 07:38 PM

Thanks Blake. I need to look into this some more. I often need critters in hand to see the difference. Tadpoles may be my next try. Though, I still need a mountain madtom in my left hand, and a northern in my right first.

#7 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:19 AM

Thanks Blake. I need to look into this some more. I often need critters in hand to see the difference. Tadpoles may be my next try. Though, I still need a mountain madtom in my left hand, and a northern in my right first.


I suggest holding them in your hands to avoid getting stung.

At first I thought the plant may be pickerel weed, then I saw the close ups of the leaves and it looks different.

#8 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:52 AM

That's quite a bit of life there for such a small creek. I like those Chubsuckers!

#9 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:08 AM

The plant is lizards-tail, Saururus cernuus. (Challenge: Does any other organism, living or extinct, have more "u"s than that?)

The upside-down sunfish is most probably a green, but maybe a redbreast; the open mouth makes it hard to distinguish.

Question about your E. collis -- Do yours have a greenish reflective haze on the eyes, like the ones I've seen in the Cape Fear? I've wondered what that's about - swamp darters don't seem to have it. A lot of marine fish do, especially deep-water and nocturnal ones.

#10 mattknepley

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:20 PM

Thanks, Blake. Based on their similar appearances I was assuming that tad and frog were one and the same species. Should've known better than to do that. I've been encouraged by the numbers of amphibians I've been turning up this year. Maybe I ought to invest in that Peterson's.

Gerald, thanks for the plant ID. (And five "u"s is going to be tough to beat. Or do you have one already?) I figured the same on the sunfish. Almost asked, but don't really have a better pic and I've already posted enough juvie sunnie id requests... As for the E. collis eyes, I haven't really noticed, but I haven't really looked for it. Give me a day or two to look at them with that in mind. I have four; one is very bold and has been from the beginning. One just overcame its shyness. The two newbies still spend most of their time hiding in a thick wad of java moss. Will enjoy getting an answer for you. They might not be boldly colored, but I find the complexity and subtlety of their pattern beautiful.
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#11 Guest_FirstChAoS_*

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:45 PM

The plant is lizards-tail, Saururus cernuus. (Challenge: Does any other organism, living or extinct, have more "u"s than that?)


What about the humuhumunukunukuapua'a triggerfish? Tought to beat 9 u's.

#12 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:13 PM

OK you win - I hadn't even thought of considering Hawaiian names.

What about the humuhumunukunukuapua'a triggerfish? Tought to beat 9 u's.



#13 mattknepley

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:18 PM

What about the humuhumunukunukuapua'a triggerfish? Tought to beat 9 u's.

I hadn't thought about Hawaiian words, either. I do think that is our winner! Funny note; back in my early 20's I dated a girl who was born and raised in HI. I learned a bunch of Hawaiian words before she introduced me to her mom in an attempt to gain maternal favor. That was one of them. I still remember bugging my gf to tell me if I pronounced it right, and being so stupid proud of myself when I did!
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

#14 mattknepley

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 07:54 AM

Had a chance to look at those Carolina darter eyes a little more closely, Gerald. I tried to look at them on their own, and then also compare them to other fishes. If your Cape Fear E. collis have eyes with a green reflective haze such as found in many walleye pictures, then the answer is no. (Caveat, I've never seen a walleye in person.) There is, however, something to that effect about them, though it is rather subtle. Their eyes aren't clear, like most others. They leave me with an impression of being cloud or smoke filled. There is a sense of "depth" to their eyes most other fishes don't have. Still, you have to look closely to see where the iris ends and the pupil begins. Weirdly, their eyes seem to simultaneously absorb and dull the light they receive, if that makes sense. That said, at certain angles there does appear to be a thin reflective haze to them. (Caveat here; the lighting in their tank at this time leaves much to be desired.)

Except for the walleye reference, I tried to only compare/contrast the Carolina darter eyes to other fishes that I could view at same time; namely their fellow tank mates. The only fish whose eyes were similar to any degree were the Creek Chubsucker's, and that similarity didn't go past sharing an eye that was more solidly colored than most others. The Carolina darter eyes contrasted most with the Piedmont darter's (Percinal crassa) eyes. Their eyes seem to emit their own light. Their irises are very clear and sharply defined as well. In between fall the E. olmstedi and E. hopkinsi eyes. The Cyprinella chloristia's eyes would fall somewhere in between, too. If I had to put them in order from "darkest/most clouded/hazy" to "brightest/clearest" I guess I'd line 'em up as follows: E. collis, Erimyzon oblongus, E hopkinsi, C. chloristia, E. olmstedi, P. crassa.

Don't know if this answered your question. Let me know if there is something else you were looking for.

Now in the meantime, I have to try to get rid of this song I now have stuck in my head, "She's got E. collis eyes..."
Matt Knepley
"No thanks, a third of a gopher would merely arouse my appetite..."

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 01:50 PM

Thanks Blake. I need to look into this some more. I often need critters in hand to see the difference. Tadpoles may be my next try. Though, I still need a mountain madtom in my left hand, and a northern in my right first.


No problem. I just recently decided to start learning tadpoles as well, and it's been pretty easy here in Illinois (not an overwhelming amount of diversity) -- certainly easier than most Notropis or your Noturus in an Ohio drainage!

Like Josh, I love those Erimyzon!

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:37 AM

Yes, that's a good description of it. I haven't really compared them with non-darters -- just with swamp and sawcheeks, and noticed that the hazy eye seems to be a consistent difference. Here's a couple pics of E.collis from a Cape Fear trib NW of Pittsboro NC, showing the greenish haze. In NC, E.the range of E. collis overlaps a little with swamp and sawcheek along the Piedmont /Coastal Plain transition zone, so I was looking for good field indicators (i.e. something more easily observable than infraorbital pores and scale counts).

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#17 mattknepley

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:15 PM

The eyes on that lower one look pretty close to mine. Never seen them so green as the one in the top picture, but I will be looking a little more closely, and more often, now.
Matt Knepley
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#18 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 05:59 PM

Gerald, those Collins look a lot different than the ones I am used to seeing. The ones here are pretty distinct from the swamps and sawcheeks though they do over lap as well but I have never seen the distinct barring that your fish show.

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:37 PM

They're not all that distinctly barred. Here's a speckled one with faint bars, same collection site. You're welcome to reopen the debate with Bob Jenkins as to whether E. saludae ought to be a valid species. I've never seen SC specimens (other than Matt's pics and Fritz's book) so I don't have much sense of how different they look from my Cape Fear collis. To me, seeing live fish really makes the differences between species or local strains more apparent.

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  • Etheo.collis.Terrells.02936.jpg


#20 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 08:32 PM

I have seen them from the Saluda near Saluda and Greenwood and from the Wateree near Lugoff and they all look more or less like your last photo. Maybe I have just never seen them colored since the barred ones also appear to have some gold speckling. I think they are probably all the same species more or less.



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