Hello,
I am new to Nanfa, although I have lurked on the forums here for awhile, and I have some general ID questions, so I think this is where I should post them.
I would not say I am new to native fish per say, and I am fairly experienced with keeping fish in general. (I have a saltwater tank, a tropical community tank with rare Botia [loaches], a native stream tank, and am in the process of stocking an African biotope tank centered on a school of Elephantnose fish.) In fact, native fish were what originally got me into fish as a kid. I would go collect things from our swamps in the woods, mostly stuff like cadisfly larvae, tadpoles, fairy shrimp, etc., and put them in a rubbermaid I set up to look like a swamp. I also had a mudminnow I kept in there, who is still one of my favorite fish I have ever owned, and I would rescue sticklebacks and other non-bait fish from the bait tanks. Later I kept a Green Sunfish and Black bullhead in a different tank for awhile...
So all that to say, I have only recently gotten back into natives, but I would not say I am completely new to them, and in general (as in, at fish stores) I am very good at IDing fish. In fact several of my rare loaches I got because they came in with more common loaches and the fish store didn't realize.
So I know according to the Code of Ethics, you are supposed to identify fish before removing them from the wild. This makes complete sense to me, and I have familiarized myself with the Endangered, Threatened and Invasive species in my area, and am fairly confident I would recognize them, because most are fairly different form any fish I am trying to collect. In addition WI has a great identification website (http://www.seagrant.....aspx?tabid=604) that has a downloadable app you don't even need the internet for, so I have been using that in field. But the problem is I'll think I have identified a fish, but then I'll get it home in the aquarium and often start to second guess myself, or the fish with outright look differently to me once it settles in to the nice, bigger tank, than in my little plastic tank I use when collecting. Now I am not talking about something like, not being able to tell a sculpin from a darter, but say a mottled sculpin from a slimy sculpin, because to me just looking at pictures they look very similar. I can tell a darter from a sculpin or a round goby (encountered those the first time collecting darters!), a small creek chub from a shiner, a warmouth from a rock bass, a madtom from a baby bullhead, a mudminnow from a trout perch, suckermouth minnows from a stoneroller, etc. But especially within the group of shiners I am having trouble feeling confident in my IDs. There are seriously so many shiners with black lateral lines!
Anyone have any tips? I am trying my best to be ecologically responsible, not taking anything I'm not reasonably sure what it is, but sometimes a few species look so very similar I don't know how it's possible to be 100% certain!
(For reference in my tank I know for sure I have Johnny darters, a blacksided darter, suckermouth minnows, and some "minnows" I identified as Ironcolor shiners, weed shiners, and pearl dace. I also have have some Iowa darters I believe. I got them from a lake not a stream, and though they were very pale, almost the color of say a sand darter, because of where I found them, and their shape and pattern I was sure they must just be washed out Iowa darters. But they still have not colored up, so I so I'm not as sure anymore. I also have another small tank with a brook stickleback, and a 1in rock bass I'm growing out.)
Thanks for any thoughts!
Identification woes
Started by
Guest_QuoVadis_*
, Aug 08 2013 12:27 PM
8 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_gerald_*
Guest_gerald_*
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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:09 PM
Even the professional ichthyologists cant always ID every specimen in the field, especially if they're young, or have faded out colors, or injuries, or just plain odd-looking individuals. Best plan IMO is to make sure you know all the federal-listed and state-listed species that could potentially occur in that particular watershed or region, and don't keep anything that might be one of those. Take plenty of pics of your unknowns in a field photo-tank, with close-ups of head, fins, etc and we'll play the ID guessing game with you. The more fish you look at, the better you get at ID-ing.
Also, get used to using an ID key, which shows you exactly what features to look for, rather than just comparing pictures.
Also, get used to using an ID key, which shows you exactly what features to look for, rather than just comparing pictures.
#3
Michael Wolfe
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- Board of Directors
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- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:49 PM
My suggestion is to
1) know where you collected the fish from
2) look less at color and more at shapes of features like mouth, fins, scale size, etc. some of the older fishes of books were good about having line drawings.
3) learn to see genus levels to help separate some if the minnows. Nocomis vs Notropis vs Cyprinella
1) know where you collected the fish from
2) look less at color and more at shapes of features like mouth, fins, scale size, etc. some of the older fishes of books were good about having line drawings.
3) learn to see genus levels to help separate some if the minnows. Nocomis vs Notropis vs Cyprinella
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#4
Guest_BenCantrell_*
Guest_BenCantrell_*
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- Guests
Posted 08 August 2013 - 06:57 PM
Be sure to contact the DNR about a permit allowing you to collect fish for use in personal aquariums. They'll go over the VHS regulations and as long as you don't say anything dumb they'll send you a letter in the mail stating that you're allowed to collect for one year. I had to show the letter to a game warden once, so be sure to have it on you at all times if you plan on collecting.
I'll echo what the guys above said. Get lots of practice IDing fish in the field, and don't take anything home that you're not 100% sure of.
Good luck! Sounds like you have some great fish around you.
I'll echo what the guys above said. Get lots of practice IDing fish in the field, and don't take anything home that you're not 100% sure of.
Good luck! Sounds like you have some great fish around you.
#5
Guest_kamikazi_*
Guest_kamikazi_*
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Posted 09 August 2013 - 07:20 AM
Be sure to contact the DNR about a permit allowing you to collect fish for use in personal aquariums. They'll go over the VHS regulations and as long as you don't say anything dumb they'll send you a letter in the mail stating that you're allowed to collect for one year. I had to show the letter to a game warden once, so be sure to have it on you at all times if you plan on collecting.
I'll echo what the guys above said. Get lots of practice IDing fish in the field, and don't take anything home that you're not 100% sure of.
Good luck! Sounds like you have some great fish around you.
Different states have different rules, like in NC you need a regular fishing permit and a permit authorizing the use of special devices (sienes/dip nets etc). Then if you use those special devices you can only do so according to the rules for each specific county and watershed. As long as you have the permits and follow the seasons you can collect and keep your catch (federally and state protected aside of course)
Point being, always be sure to look into the laws for your state.
#6
Guest_gerald_*
Guest_gerald_*
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- Guests
Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:17 AM
The NC special devices permit is if you're collecting non-game fish for sale. If you're just collecting small numbers for personal use with the equipment limits specified, then a regular freshwater fishing license covers you, and those county seasonal limits don't matter. (BUT no seining in NC designated trout streams).
Different states have different rules, like in NC you need a regular fishing permit and a permit authorizing the use of special devices (sienes/dip nets etc). Then if you use those special devices you can only do so according to the rules for each specific county and watershed. As long as you have the permits and follow the seasons you can collect and keep your catch (federally and state protected aside of course)
Point being, always be sure to look into the laws for your state.
#7
Guest_BenCantrell_*
Guest_BenCantrell_*
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- Guests
Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:16 AM
I didn't mention it in the post above, but I was specifically talking about Wisconsin.
#8
Guest_QuoVadis_*
Guest_QuoVadis_*
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- Guests
Posted 09 August 2013 - 01:28 PM
BenCantrell: what form is it that I need to get a permit for collecting aquariums? I read a bunch on the DNR website before I went collecting and I didnt see anything about that type of permit. My understanding from what it said online was that as long as I was a Wisconsin resident, didn't collect game species, and had no more than 600 "minnows" in my possession it was ok collect without a permit.
#9
Guest_BenCantrell_*
Guest_BenCantrell_*
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- Guests
Posted 09 August 2013 - 02:19 PM
I think the regulations have become more strict since the VHS scare. I'll send you a PM with the contact info for the DNR guy in charge of issuing the permits (it's actually just a letter from the DNR, not an actual permit per se). He's a very friendly guy.
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