Dredging my archives

Triumph of the least darter....
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This one is a quiz can you ID the fish?
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A one of a kind Gem..The first voucher Rainbow darter for The upper Detroit river.
Mode of transfer was likely a bait release or a bucket biologist but finding it was a very special thing..
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A baby Water wolf...Esox but not sure if it is musky or northern..
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Another baby wolf this one being a Longnosed gar
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More later...

is the mystery fishs fantail darters
very interesting baby fish do they do well in captivty at that size and are the daphina food or other captured stuff

the bottom fish in the mystery photo is a fantail the top pic looks like an evil invasive, a tubenose goby. Also I found a single rainbow and a single greenside darter at the trenton channel powerplant on the detroit river a little over a year ago now.

an evil invasive, a tubenose goby.

Are they really "invasive"? Definately "exotic", but I don't know if I would go toward invasive. Their generalist cousin the round goby is invasive. Last I had talked to Dave Jude, the tubenose wasn't moving out of the mouth of the Clinton. In fact, I'd argue that watershed conditions down the Detroit River would need to IMPROVE before the tubenose took hold anywhere else. The fish I've caught seem to live in that conundrum of clean woody detritus.

Todd

Are they really "invasive"? Definately "exotic", but I don't know if I would go toward invasive. Their generalist cousin the round goby is invasive. Last I had talked to Dave Jude, the tubenose wasn't moving out of the mouth of the Clinton. In fact, I'd argue that watershed conditions down the Detroit River would need to IMPROVE before the tubenose took hold anywhere else. The fish I've caught seem to live in that conundrum of clean woody detritus.

Todd

Definition wise I would agree with you Todd, they really have not shown themselves to be very invasive. They are certainly not rarely seen though up in this portion of the river and seem seasonally abundant.

They are certainly not rarely seen though up in this portion of the river and seem seasonally abundant.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think their presence is a GOOD thing It's just another complexity trying to manage in a historical context, and I would imagine they're competing for food resources with what greensides and johnny D remain. But that niche has been left vacant for other reasons, and it seems the tubenose happened to hit the right place at the right time to establish a population.

So, yeah, "Death to all Gobies" still applies... But this is one that's not getting very far.

I do, however, think we should be careful with our terminology, esp those entering the professional fields.

I'll leave the use of "evil" to someone who's far more anal than I am lol!

Now, what's the other Ponto Caspian one they're worried about? The dragon goby? Man, I wish I knew what the species name was because there's about 1000 fish with that common name.

Anyway, my friend is working on the systematics of the region and actually got to spend time on the Black Sea and the Volga River (brought me some schweet old world Unionids too . His comment on the dragon goby... "Be afraid. Be VERY afraid." They lost their round goby vouchers at one locale the same way people have lost darters to sculpins

Todd

It's just another complexity trying to manage in a historical context, and I would imagine they're competing for food resources with what greensides and johnny D remain. But that niche has been left vacant for other reasons, and it seems the tubenose happened to hit the right place at the right time to establish a population.

This is very true, we really did not start to see many Tubenosed until their preferred niche was already pretty much much vacated by the round goby invasion. They do seem to be a touchy fish and very specific about habitat. We often find the tubenosed in mucky slow canals, inland lagoons and frequently in shallow weed beds. Some show up in Rip rap along the shore but they are always away from areas where wave action would be disruptive.

On terminology, especially when it comes to the words "invasive", "introduced", "Exotic", and "Native". It is correct that it is good to understand the terms and use them correctly, especially in an educational context. It is also a bit annoying though that there really still is not a refined definition for any of these terms. It seems like every month or so there is another argument of just what Native is, or what qualifies as Exotic over invasive..It sure would be nice to have a steady definition..

On terminology, especially when it comes to the words "invasive", "introduced", "Exotic", and "Native". It is correct that it is good to understand the terms and use them correctly, especially in an educational context. It is also a bit annoying though that there really still is not a refined definition for any of these terms. It seems like every month or so there is another argument of just what Native is, or what qualifies as Exotic over invasive..It sure would be nice to have a steady definition..

I think all the above are clear, except when considering range expansion species that have their expansion directly tied to post European settlement disturbance, or abundances skewered, again by the disturbance.

Something either occurred or did not occurr in a watershed historically. The evidence is somewhat limited because we didn't have the extensive surveys we have today... But we're literally watching orangespot sunfish, greenside darters and steelhead establish new breeding populations as time goes on, the former both expansions of fouled up watersheds, the later moving along as we clean up our act post-introduction. And so there's a great case that this is a human induced expansion, because the areas they're moving into were climax plant communities, and as such, the streams were in as stable a state as a stream can get.

It also becomes more clear once people realize you have "invasive natives" and "introduced natives" or "exotic natives".

Again, all are tied to human disturbance, wether that was the soaring populations of bluntnose and fathead minnows we see in the midwest (invasive natives), or a DNR bait bucket introduction of a trout, walleye or flathead catfish (introduced or exotic natives, depending on which coast you affiliate).

Even still, the above are treated as exotics by those scientists working on things like the Index of Biological Integrity, because the context is "water quality" and "historical context". It gets kinda goofy with trout in that regard (the oily bohunk factor), but this is where I like to point out that sea lamprey enjoy the same water quality changes the trout enjoy in the Great Lakes, so are we gonna count them too? <very evil grin>

Todd